5 ms·

The findings are very interesting - who would one learn of the foods to eat to create a positive gut bacteria environment?

by czbond 6y ago

throwanem 6y ago
To a good first approximation, this is the crux of Pollan's dictum: "Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much."
- faeyanpiraat 6y ago
  There must be more to it.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    That's why I started out by saying "to a good first approximation". I don't see a lot of value in the kinds of "quantified-self" hyperoptimizations people always seem so anxious to go for around this. Maintaining a good, healthy diet certainly isn't enough for everyone, and of course I see why folks for whom that doesn't suffice go deeper. But if you're starting anywhere else but by investing in the habit of maintaining a good, healthy diet, I think you're starting in the wrong place. My experience has been that it is truly astonishing how much benefit can be derived simply from the habit of eating well.
    - saiya-jin 6y ago
      Completely agree, there is no point these days to go beyond basic regime of eating healthy, exercising healthy, sleeping well, have good relationships, not too stressful work and maybe few little personal extra things like meditation or similar mood setter. Each of these can be broken down to 1-2 levels of more details, but it doesn't make sense to go deeper. Ie with food - lots of veggies, then bit of +-healthy everything, ideally BIO, tasty, eat more in first half of the day etc. The number of people who can consistently manage all of those to a good level would be astonishingly small. But we all can try to cover as much as possible, and it will be good enough for most for good healthy life.
  - bitdizzy 6y ago
    You can keep a journal of your wellbeing to establish a baseline and then start making changes to your diet. For example, adding a green smoothie (mostly leafy greens, some fruit and nuts) to my breakfast every day seems to have ameliorated my IBS after a month or so. I'm still trying to add more vegetables to my diet because it seems like it's actually physically difficult to eat more than an optimal amount of them. But your personal experience is the most direct data you can gather about this complex topic. Beyond generalities, diet is more likely than not idiosyncratic to each individual.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      I think you must be right about that. For example, while I'm sure I would also enjoy such a smoothie every morning, the probably quite high oxalate content would almost certainly bring about a quick recurrence of the kidney stones which removing all added salt from my diet has relieved. So I won't do that! Regarding vegetables, have you considered salads? The genre offers far more variety than I think many suspect, and I don't know a more pleasant or more effective way of eating a vegetable-first diet than to get really good at salad.
      - bitdizzy 6y ago
        Oh good call on the oxalate content! I'll be on the look out for that now, though it seems that I've been using low oxalate varieties of kale by preference. I've been having a salad either as a whole meal or as a side every day as well. I still think I would benefit from eating more vegetables but only experiment and observation will tell.
        throwanem 6y ago
        I mean, you probably don't have to worry too hard about oxalates! The strongest predictor by far for stone forming is a history of stone forming, so I have to be very careful to limit oxalate-rich foods, but unless you've had problems before, you're likely good - although it's still not a bad idea to keep it in mind, because kidney stones suck a lot to have. And be sure to drink plenty of water, of course, but that's a good rule no matter what. Another way I like to use vegetables is in sauces. It doesn't take much - what I'll usually do is start with a Béchamel (blond roux, add milk or cream) and then once it's well combined add handfuls of well-chopped onion, bell pepper, mushroom, or almost anything else I have on hand. Simmer and stir over low flame until the flavor and texture say "done". If you like spicy, then adding one whole finely minced habanero early on makes for a pleasantly gentle and slow-working heat; if you like umami, a generous dose of gorgonzola or some other strong cheese gives the sauce a unique base note. The juices from the vegetables (especially mushrooms, which are full of water) will join the sauce, bringing their volatiles along, and you end up with a subtle flavor that, depending on what you put in, will complement just about anything. (If you eat meat and like steak, do be sure also to try it under a mushroom-and-gorgonzola sauce on this base! "That's got to be way too much" of both is about enough, and you can also add fresh crumbled bacon. Done right, it beats out any steakhouse I've ever been to. Enjoy!)
pazimzadeh 6y ago
Consistently eat different kinds of plant fibers. If you only eat the same thing, you'll lose diversity in your microbiota. Though we don't know yet which strains are "good" or "bad" (it's context-dependent), having diversity makes sure that all niches are filled and an usurper won't come in and cause problems. This paper may help you, but it was done in germ free colonized with human microbiotas, so the results may not directly translate to humans: Interspecies Competition Impacts Targeted Manipulation of Human Gut Bacteria by Fiber-Derived Glycans https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(19)30899-2 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(19)30899-2
curation 6y ago
Research shows that the best thing you can do is not be born and living in the industrialized world. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00193-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00193-3

The findings are very interesting - who would one learn of the foods to eat to create a positive gut bacteria environment?

by czbond 6y ago

The findings are very interesting - who would one learn of the foods to eat to create a positive gut bacteria environment?

throwanem 6y ago

To a good first approximation, this is the crux of Pollan's dictum: "Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much."

faeyanpiraat 6y ago
There must be more to it.
- throwanem 6y ago
  That's why I started out by saying "to a good first approximation". I don't see a lot of value in the kinds of "quantified-self" hyperoptimizations people always seem so anxious to go for around this. Maintaining a good, healthy diet certainly isn't enough for everyone, and of course I see why folks for whom that doesn't suffice go deeper. But if you're starting anywhere else but by investing in the habit of maintaining a good, healthy diet, I think you're starting in the wrong place. My experience has been that it is truly astonishing how much benefit can be derived simply from the habit of eating well.
  - saiya-jin 6y ago
    Completely agree, there is no point these days to go beyond basic regime of eating healthy, exercising healthy, sleeping well, have good relationships, not too stressful work and maybe few little personal extra things like meditation or similar mood setter. Each of these can be broken down to 1-2 levels of more details, but it doesn't make sense to go deeper. Ie with food - lots of veggies, then bit of +-healthy everything, ideally BIO, tasty, eat more in first half of the day etc. The number of people who can consistently manage all of those to a good level would be astonishingly small. But we all can try to cover as much as possible, and it will be good enough for most for good healthy life.
- bitdizzy 6y ago
  You can keep a journal of your wellbeing to establish a baseline and then start making changes to your diet. For example, adding a green smoothie (mostly leafy greens, some fruit and nuts) to my breakfast every day seems to have ameliorated my IBS after a month or so. I'm still trying to add more vegetables to my diet because it seems like it's actually physically difficult to eat more than an optimal amount of them. But your personal experience is the most direct data you can gather about this complex topic. Beyond generalities, diet is more likely than not idiosyncratic to each individual.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    I think you must be right about that. For example, while I'm sure I would also enjoy such a smoothie every morning, the probably quite high oxalate content would almost certainly bring about a quick recurrence of the kidney stones which removing all added salt from my diet has relieved. So I won't do that! Regarding vegetables, have you considered salads? The genre offers far more variety than I think many suspect, and I don't know a more pleasant or more effective way of eating a vegetable-first diet than to get really good at salad.
    - bitdizzy 6y ago
      Oh good call on the oxalate content! I'll be on the look out for that now, though it seems that I've been using low oxalate varieties of kale by preference. I've been having a salad either as a whole meal or as a side every day as well. I still think I would benefit from eating more vegetables but only experiment and observation will tell.
      - throwanem 6y ago
        I mean, you probably don't have to worry too hard about oxalates! The strongest predictor by far for stone forming is a history of stone forming, so I have to be very careful to limit oxalate-rich foods, but unless you've had problems before, you're likely good - although it's still not a bad idea to keep it in mind, because kidney stones suck a lot to have. And be sure to drink plenty of water, of course, but that's a good rule no matter what. Another way I like to use vegetables is in sauces. It doesn't take much - what I'll usually do is start with a Béchamel (blond roux, add milk or cream) and then once it's well combined add handfuls of well-chopped onion, bell pepper, mushroom, or almost anything else I have on hand. Simmer and stir over low flame until the flavor and texture say "done". If you like spicy, then adding one whole finely minced habanero early on makes for a pleasantly gentle and slow-working heat; if you like umami, a generous dose of gorgonzola or some other strong cheese gives the sauce a unique base note. The juices from the vegetables (especially mushrooms, which are full of water) will join the sauce, bringing their volatiles along, and you end up with a subtle flavor that, depending on what you put in, will complement just about anything. (If you eat meat and like steak, do be sure also to try it under a mushroom-and-gorgonzola sauce on this base! "That's got to be way too much" of both is about enough, and you can also add fresh crumbled bacon. Done right, it beats out any steakhouse I've ever been to. Enjoy!)

pazimzadeh 6y ago

Consistently eat different kinds of plant fibers. If you only eat the same thing, you'll lose diversity in your microbiota. Though we don't know yet which strains are "good" or "bad" (it's context-dependent), having diversity makes sure that all niches are filled and an usurper won't come in and cause problems. This paper may help you, but it was done in germ free colonized with human microbiotas, so the results may not directly translate to humans: Interspecies Competition Impacts Targeted Manipulation of Human Gut Bacteria by Fiber-Derived Glycans https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(19)30899-2 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(19)30899-2

curation 6y ago

Research shows that the best thing you can do is not be born and living in the industrialized world. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00193-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00193-3