5 ms·

Researchers discover the microbiome's role in attacking cancerous tumors

55 points by LinuxBender 6y ago

zensavona 6y ago
Very cool how we are learning that the microbiome seems to play a significant role in -so- many previously unexpected bodily processes. Does anyone know of some other interesting findings to share?
- wonder_er 6y ago
  There's a long and fascinating story about cancer as a metabolic disease. Turns 98% of modern cancer research on it's head. I wish I could give a 200 word summary, but that would not do justice to the decades of research behind this approach. Instead, I direct you to a book that could well save your life or the life of your friends and family: Tripping Over the Truth: The Metabolic Theory of Cancer[0] [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23496164-tripping-over-the-truth https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23496164-tripping-over-t...
  - jp555 6y ago
    For comparison, what kinds of diseases are not metabolic?
    - wonder_er 6y ago
      I'm not an expert in any means. I'm a software developer who has had some friends died of cancer, and then two years ago I read "Tripping over the Truth" and felt a sense of rage. To take a stab at your question, at least in the context of cancer, cancer is almost never seen as a "cell metabolism" problem, it's viewed as a "damaged DNA" problem Quoting from an article[0] that discusses the somatic vs. metabolic theories of cancer. This is how the "somatic theory of cancer" describes the cancer pathways: > Cancer is caused by damage to DNA, which leads to damaged genes. Those genes, oncogenes, are responsible for the reproduction of cancer cell lines (which one could think of as multi-generation families), which grow unchecked to the point of being a tumor. Those tumors can be tested for damaged genes and will allegedly show those genes. [0]: https://colleenhuber.com/metabolic-theory-of-cancer-and-common-misconceptions/ https://colleenhuber.com/metabolic-theory-of-cancer-and-comm...
      - jhbadger 6y ago
        As a cancer biologist, separating the metabolic from the somatic causes is complicated. Yes, ultimately cancers arise from the replication of cells with mutations in their DNA. But our immune system is on constant lookout for such cells and kill them once identified. So in a sense cancer is a failure of the immune system, and many things can depress the immune system, including metabolism.
        wonder_er 6y ago
        I appreciate your response! I'm a layperson, so I am the last person qualified to give an informed response to your comment. That said, I perceive a conceptual gap between your response, and my understanding of the metabolic theory of cancer. I believe this gap exists because the 'metabolism' piece refers not to human metabolism, but cellular metabolism, specifically how mitochondria create energy. I would be thrilled and honored if you'd read "Tripping Over the Truth"[0], but I know we all live in resource-constrained environments. You're not going to read a book because a random person on HN suggested it. Because of this, and the fact that I dislike even hinting at "do unpaid labor", I am paying people to read this book. I've allocated $5000 (5% of my pre-tax annual income when working, though I'm on a sabbatical right now) to getting certain well-positioned individuals to read Tripping Over the Truth[1]. Not to force or coerce anyone into agreeing with me, but I find the general theory to be so persuasive, I wonder if others might as well. I want expert insight into this topic. Would you be willing to accept some of that "fund" and read the book? If, after reading, you'd be willing to give me a paragraph of your commentary on the book, I'd be eternally grateful. I'd pay you $500 to read the book. If $500 isn't compelling, how about $1000? I'd send half when you agree to reading it, half when done (paypal, venmo, bitcoin, whatever). I hope you're interested. My email is in my profile! [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23496164-tripping-over-the-truth https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23496164-tripping-over-t... [1]: https://josh.works/mike-clayville-can-have-a-huge-impact-on-cancer https://josh.works/mike-clayville-can-have-a-huge-impact-on-...
      - JPLeRouzic 6y ago
        Did you have a look at this article? "Here we show that metabolic alterations that occur with age can produce a systemic environment that favours the progression and aggressiveness of tumours." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2630-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2630-0
    - saiya-jin 6y ago
      Genetic diseases, those caused by random mutations ie due to exposure to various radiation, and probably tons more. Even those eating very healthy do get ie cancer, just less than average.
czbond 6y ago
The findings are very interesting - who would one learn of the foods to eat to create a positive gut bacteria environment?
- throwanem 6y ago
  To a good first approximation, this is the crux of Pollan's dictum: "Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much."
  - faeyanpiraat 6y ago
    There must be more to it.
    - throwanem 6y ago
      That's why I started out by saying "to a good first approximation". I don't see a lot of value in the kinds of "quantified-self" hyperoptimizations people always seem so anxious to go for around this. Maintaining a good, healthy diet certainly isn't enough for everyone, and of course I see why folks for whom that doesn't suffice go deeper. But if you're starting anywhere else but by investing in the habit of maintaining a good, healthy diet, I think you're starting in the wrong place. My experience has been that it is truly astonishing how much benefit can be derived simply from the habit of eating well.
      - saiya-jin 6y ago
        Completely agree, there is no point these days to go beyond basic regime of eating healthy, exercising healthy, sleeping well, have good relationships, not too stressful work and maybe few little personal extra things like meditation or similar mood setter. Each of these can be broken down to 1-2 levels of more details, but it doesn't make sense to go deeper. Ie with food - lots of veggies, then bit of +-healthy everything, ideally BIO, tasty, eat more in first half of the day etc. The number of people who can consistently manage all of those to a good level would be astonishingly small. But we all can try to cover as much as possible, and it will be good enough for most for good healthy life.
sradman 6y ago
The paper Microbiome-derived inosine modulates response to checkpoint inhibitor immunotherapy [1]: > We found that intestinal B. pseudolongum modulated enhanced immunotherapy response through production of the metabolite inosine. Decreased gut barrier function induced by immunotherapy increased systemic translocation of inosine and activated anti-tumor T cells. The effect of inosine was dependent on T cell expression of the adenosine A2A receptor and required co-stimulation. Collectively, our study identifies a novel microbial metabolite-immune pathway that is activated by immunotherapy that may be exploited to develop microbial-based adjuvant therapies. [1] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/12/science.abc3421 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/12/scie...
m3kw9 6y ago
Fast track this
sevencolors 6y ago
I'm hopeful we can look back on our primitive cancer fighting days when we simply take a booster shot for what ails us and we go back to work.

55 points by LinuxBender 6y ago

Very cool how we are learning that the microbiome seems to play a significant role in -so- many previously unexpected bodily processes. Does anyone know of some other interesting findings to share?

wonder_er 6y ago
There's a long and fascinating story about cancer as a metabolic disease. Turns 98% of modern cancer research on it's head. I wish I could give a 200 word summary, but that would not do justice to the decades of research behind this approach. Instead, I direct you to a book that could well save your life or the life of your friends and family: Tripping Over the Truth: The Metabolic Theory of Cancer[0] [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23496164-tripping-over-the-truth https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23496164-tripping-over-t...
- jp555 6y ago
  For comparison, what kinds of diseases are not metabolic?
  - wonder_er 6y ago
    I'm not an expert in any means. I'm a software developer who has had some friends died of cancer, and then two years ago I read "Tripping over the Truth" and felt a sense of rage. To take a stab at your question, at least in the context of cancer, cancer is almost never seen as a "cell metabolism" problem, it's viewed as a "damaged DNA" problem Quoting from an article[0] that discusses the somatic vs. metabolic theories of cancer. This is how the "somatic theory of cancer" describes the cancer pathways: > Cancer is caused by damage to DNA, which leads to damaged genes. Those genes, oncogenes, are responsible for the reproduction of cancer cell lines (which one could think of as multi-generation families), which grow unchecked to the point of being a tumor. Those tumors can be tested for damaged genes and will allegedly show those genes. [0]: https://colleenhuber.com/metabolic-theory-of-cancer-and-common-misconceptions/ https://colleenhuber.com/metabolic-theory-of-cancer-and-comm...
    - jhbadger 6y ago
      As a cancer biologist, separating the metabolic from the somatic causes is complicated. Yes, ultimately cancers arise from the replication of cells with mutations in their DNA. But our immune system is on constant lookout for such cells and kill them once identified. So in a sense cancer is a failure of the immune system, and many things can depress the immune system, including metabolism.
      - wonder_er 6y ago
        I appreciate your response! I'm a layperson, so I am the last person qualified to give an informed response to your comment. That said, I perceive a conceptual gap between your response, and my understanding of the metabolic theory of cancer. I believe this gap exists because the 'metabolism' piece refers not to human metabolism, but cellular metabolism, specifically how mitochondria create energy. I would be thrilled and honored if you'd read "Tripping Over the Truth"[0], but I know we all live in resource-constrained environments. You're not going to read a book because a random person on HN suggested it. Because of this, and the fact that I dislike even hinting at "do unpaid labor", I am paying people to read this book. I've allocated $5000 (5% of my pre-tax annual income when working, though I'm on a sabbatical right now) to getting certain well-positioned individuals to read Tripping Over the Truth[1]. Not to force or coerce anyone into agreeing with me, but I find the general theory to be so persuasive, I wonder if others might as well. I want expert insight into this topic. Would you be willing to accept some of that "fund" and read the book? If, after reading, you'd be willing to give me a paragraph of your commentary on the book, I'd be eternally grateful. I'd pay you $500 to read the book. If $500 isn't compelling, how about $1000? I'd send half when you agree to reading it, half when done (paypal, venmo, bitcoin, whatever). I hope you're interested. My email is in my profile! [0]: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23496164-tripping-over-the-truth https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23496164-tripping-over-t... [1]: https://josh.works/mike-clayville-can-have-a-huge-impact-on-cancer https://josh.works/mike-clayville-can-have-a-huge-impact-on-...
    - JPLeRouzic 6y ago
      Did you have a look at this article? "Here we show that metabolic alterations that occur with age can produce a systemic environment that favours the progression and aggressiveness of tumours." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2630-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2630-0
  - saiya-jin 6y ago
    Genetic diseases, those caused by random mutations ie due to exposure to various radiation, and probably tons more. Even those eating very healthy do get ie cancer, just less than average.

czbond 6y ago

The findings are very interesting - who would one learn of the foods to eat to create a positive gut bacteria environment?

throwanem 6y ago
To a good first approximation, this is the crux of Pollan's dictum: "Eat food. Mostly plants. Not too much."
- faeyanpiraat 6y ago
  There must be more to it.
  - throwanem 6y ago
    That's why I started out by saying "to a good first approximation". I don't see a lot of value in the kinds of "quantified-self" hyperoptimizations people always seem so anxious to go for around this. Maintaining a good, healthy diet certainly isn't enough for everyone, and of course I see why folks for whom that doesn't suffice go deeper. But if you're starting anywhere else but by investing in the habit of maintaining a good, healthy diet, I think you're starting in the wrong place. My experience has been that it is truly astonishing how much benefit can be derived simply from the habit of eating well.
    - saiya-jin 6y ago
      Completely agree, there is no point these days to go beyond basic regime of eating healthy, exercising healthy, sleeping well, have good relationships, not too stressful work and maybe few little personal extra things like meditation or similar mood setter. Each of these can be broken down to 1-2 levels of more details, but it doesn't make sense to go deeper. Ie with food - lots of veggies, then bit of +-healthy everything, ideally BIO, tasty, eat more in first half of the day etc. The number of people who can consistently manage all of those to a good level would be astonishingly small. But we all can try to cover as much as possible, and it will be good enough for most for good healthy life.

sradman 6y ago

The paper Microbiome-derived inosine modulates response to checkpoint inhibitor immunotherapy [1]: > We found that intestinal B. pseudolongum modulated enhanced immunotherapy response through production of the metabolite inosine. Decreased gut barrier function induced by immunotherapy increased systemic translocation of inosine and activated anti-tumor T cells. The effect of inosine was dependent on T cell expression of the adenosine A2A receptor and required co-stimulation. Collectively, our study identifies a novel microbial metabolite-immune pathway that is activated by immunotherapy that may be exploited to develop microbial-based adjuvant therapies. [1] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/12/science.abc3421 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/12/scie...

m3kw9 6y ago

Fast track this

sevencolors 6y ago

I'm hopeful we can look back on our primitive cancer fighting days when we simply take a booster shot for what ails us and we go back to work.