4 ms·

This is a great paper. I just want to know how cosmologists are going to handwave away that this isn't generated by some unknown gravitational phenomenon, that

This is a great paper. I just want to know how cosmologists are going to handwave away that this isn't generated by some unknown gravitational phenomenon, that gravity does not scale to the size required for this, and that the electromagnetic force is the driver of all phenomenon at the solar or galactic scale, including this.

gbrown 6y ago
I mean, that is what the article appears to say, no? Magnetic forces carried by the plasma surrounding the black hole interacting with frame-dragged spacetime.
- DiabloD3 6y ago
  The actual paper doesn't say that, Phys.org coverage is a bit hit and miss sometimes, trying to dumb it down enough for the common reader (but not nearly as much as the news media does). The paper is mostly about the actual record of the observations. Based on the description of the authors, it seems they're witnessing a huge z-pinch being formed out of a (most likely multi-layered) toroidal plasma field. Conceptually, this phenomenon and experimental double layer Hail effect thrusters are pretty similar, and exploit the same area of plasma physics. The jet doesn't switch on until you pump enough energy into it, similar to how plasma goes from glow mode to arc mode relatively quickly, but forms a self-reinforcing helical beam perpendicular to the plasmoid donut. None of this necessarily requires gravity, even to stay cohesive at this immense scale.
QuadmasterXLII 6y ago
I've seen allusions to this theory a couple times on hacker news. I'd be interested in an exposition of the math behind it. For example, since electromagnetism drives all phenomena at solar scale, it should be possible to derive Kepler's laws from this theory. Could you link such a derivation?
imglorp 6y ago
Wait, I think the assertion is EM drives some _some_ phenomena at those scales. Are you suggesting it's the driver of _all_ phenomena?

gbrown 6y ago

I mean, that is what the article appears to say, no? Magnetic forces carried by the plasma surrounding the black hole interacting with frame-dragged spacetime.

DiabloD3 6y ago
The actual paper doesn't say that, Phys.org coverage is a bit hit and miss sometimes, trying to dumb it down enough for the common reader (but not nearly as much as the news media does). The paper is mostly about the actual record of the observations. Based on the description of the authors, it seems they're witnessing a huge z-pinch being formed out of a (most likely multi-layered) toroidal plasma field. Conceptually, this phenomenon and experimental double layer Hail effect thrusters are pretty similar, and exploit the same area of plasma physics. The jet doesn't switch on until you pump enough energy into it, similar to how plasma goes from glow mode to arc mode relatively quickly, but forms a self-reinforcing helical beam perpendicular to the plasmoid donut. None of this necessarily requires gravity, even to stay cohesive at this immense scale.

QuadmasterXLII 6y ago

I've seen allusions to this theory a couple times on hacker news. I'd be interested in an exposition of the math behind it. For example, since electromagnetism drives all phenomena at solar scale, it should be possible to derive Kepler's laws from this theory. Could you link such a derivation?

imglorp 6y ago

Wait, I think the assertion is EM drives some _some_ phenomena at those scales. Are you suggesting it's the driver of _all_ phenomena?