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"If people are given enough money to live on for free I would wager there is zero incentive for them to be productive within society. Zero." Take any country w

by fsloth 6y ago

"If people are given enough money to live on for free I would wager there is zero incentive for them to be productive within society. Zero." Take any country with wide social safety nets. You don't really need to work in them to live. At least in my country most people prefer working. There is a small subculture of some families that seem to pass on unemployment as a way of life to their children but those are really ,really few. My answer is - I don't know the general answer. In my culture people prefer working to not working, even though they don't have to. But I don't know if this applies universally.

me_me_me 6y ago
Because we want something more from life than mindless consumption. Work can be fulfilling. If money is not a problem what is to stop you from doing something that interests you? Being part of a community, learning some cool new skill. The idea that everyone will become a zombie on UBI sound unfounded. Yes there are useless destructive people out there, they thrive on misery and pain. Capitalism, UBI, Communism, neither will fix them. But why present them as a example of how system will fail. What about next great artist that went into ad company and never took a chance to do their art. Or a next great tinker or inventor stuck in some soul draining 5-9 in a factory buried under medical debt. What about those who would have a chance to create something tenfold the value they create now?
- cringepirate 6y ago
  > Work can be fulfilling. If money is not a problem what is to stop you from doing something that interests you? There is nothing stopping you from doing that today. It just doesn't happen immediately. The vast majority of people will enter the workplace and as they gain more experience they typically will not only earn more but have more opportunities and have a professional network. > Being part of a community, learning some cool new skill. You can already do that outside of work. If people really want to do these things they will find the time. > The idea that everyone will become a zombie on UBI sound unfounded. Nobody claims they will become a zombie. What people claim is that it will create a underclass of people that are dependant on the state. Many people don't believe this is unfounded. People are driven by incentives e.g. When I worked minimum wage I was often asked to do overtime. I didn't earn a lot and would have gladly have taken up the offer if it was a worth it. The moment I did any overtime I went over the minimum threshold for income tax and any money I earned from the overtime offered was almost undone by the amount of extra tax that was taken from my paycheck. > Yes there are useless destructive people out there, they thrive on misery and pain. Capitalism, UBI, Communism, neither will fix them. But why present them as a example of how system will fail. Because some of these destructive people are products of their environment where their parents and them have lived on benefits which in turn showed their children that they could just do the same and they didn't have to get work. I have seen this personally happen. > What about next great artist that went into ad company and never took a chance to do their art. > Or a next great tinker or inventor stuck in some soul draining 5-9 in a factory buried under medical debt. > What about those who would have a chance to create something tenfold the value they create now? Truly exceptional people won't be held back and currently western societies give people plenty of opportunities to do that. Typically for both men and women once they have a family most of their efforts will go towards that rather than any lofty goals as their priorities change once they have a child.
AdrianB1 6y ago
> Take any country with wide social safety nets. You don't really need to work in them to live. Please give an example of such a country on Earth, it does not exist. Mythical countries don't qualify.
- _Understated_ 6y ago
  I'd have to say that the UK is one of those mythical countries. Look at any of the newspapers and there will be plenty of stories of people who learned to game the system and get plenty of welfare money. Source - I know one of them and I live in the UK.
  - AdrianB1 6y ago
    I heard about gaming the system as a teenage mother, but that cannot be done by everyone.

by fsloth 6y ago

me_me_me 6y ago

Because we want something more from life than mindless consumption. Work can be fulfilling. If money is not a problem what is to stop you from doing something that interests you? Being part of a community, learning some cool new skill. The idea that everyone will become a zombie on UBI sound unfounded. Yes there are useless destructive people out there, they thrive on misery and pain. Capitalism, UBI, Communism, neither will fix them. But why present them as a example of how system will fail. What about next great artist that went into ad company and never took a chance to do their art. Or a next great tinker or inventor stuck in some soul draining 5-9 in a factory buried under medical debt. What about those who would have a chance to create something tenfold the value they create now?

cringepirate 6y ago
> Work can be fulfilling. If money is not a problem what is to stop you from doing something that interests you? There is nothing stopping you from doing that today. It just doesn't happen immediately. The vast majority of people will enter the workplace and as they gain more experience they typically will not only earn more but have more opportunities and have a professional network. > Being part of a community, learning some cool new skill. You can already do that outside of work. If people really want to do these things they will find the time. > The idea that everyone will become a zombie on UBI sound unfounded. Nobody claims they will become a zombie. What people claim is that it will create a underclass of people that are dependant on the state. Many people don't believe this is unfounded. People are driven by incentives e.g. When I worked minimum wage I was often asked to do overtime. I didn't earn a lot and would have gladly have taken up the offer if it was a worth it. The moment I did any overtime I went over the minimum threshold for income tax and any money I earned from the overtime offered was almost undone by the amount of extra tax that was taken from my paycheck. > Yes there are useless destructive people out there, they thrive on misery and pain. Capitalism, UBI, Communism, neither will fix them. But why present them as a example of how system will fail. Because some of these destructive people are products of their environment where their parents and them have lived on benefits which in turn showed their children that they could just do the same and they didn't have to get work. I have seen this personally happen. > What about next great artist that went into ad company and never took a chance to do their art. > Or a next great tinker or inventor stuck in some soul draining 5-9 in a factory buried under medical debt. > What about those who would have a chance to create something tenfold the value they create now? Truly exceptional people won't be held back and currently western societies give people plenty of opportunities to do that. Typically for both men and women once they have a family most of their efforts will go towards that rather than any lofty goals as their priorities change once they have a child.

AdrianB1 6y ago

> Take any country with wide social safety nets. You don't really need to work in them to live. Please give an example of such a country on Earth, it does not exist. Mythical countries don't qualify.

_Understated_ 6y ago
I'd have to say that the UK is one of those mythical countries. Look at any of the newspapers and there will be plenty of stories of people who learned to game the system and get plenty of welfare money. Source - I know one of them and I live in the UK.
- AdrianB1 6y ago
  I heard about gaming the system as a teenage mother, but that cannot be done by everyone.