5 ms·

Facebook is banned in China. Is it unreasonable to encourage US gvt to apply pressure for a more even playing field? I know the narrative (and majority of comm

Facebook is banned in China. Is it unreasonable to encourage US gvt to apply pressure for a more even playing field? I know the narrative (and majority of comments) like to hate on Zuck, so just adding another perspective for this particular situation.

mciancia 6y ago
Is it banned just because, or maybe it's not following local laws?
- babl-yc 6y ago
  China routinely blocks US websites without explanation. It's generally so that the government can have control over what communication happens over the internet. https://techcrunch.com/2009/07/07/china-blocks-access-to-twitter-facebook-after-riots/ https://techcrunch.com/2009/07/07/china-blocks-access-to-twi...
- baby 6y ago
  Most US apps are banned in China to allow Chinese competitors to flourish.
baby 6y ago
I actually see this rhetoric a lot, and I'm not completely disagreeing with it, but at the same time I'm scared of the effects of playing the same game with the CCP and the ramifications of such move: it seems to always end up in a "us versus them" scenario which further divides the world. If you see a few people backing the US government's decision of attacking Chinese apps, imagine how the Chinese people are being brainwashed to hate on the US gov for attacking Chinese apps. IMO it is only with leading by example that we can change the situation, and the situation will change when China gets wealthy enough, and we shouldn't be scared of China becoming wealthy and joining our ranks.
- babl-yc 6y ago
  US could definitely do a better job of leading by example here while still fighting for a more level playing field. I don't like the idea of trusting the executive branch to arbitrarily ban apps. Would much prefer a clear policy as to when and why actions are taken, and what policy changes could be done to avoid them altogether.
- prh8 6y ago
  Is there benefit to setting an example that Chinese citizens would never see anyways?
  - baby 6y ago
    believe me they see it, a couple years back you could ask Chinese people in the street what they thought of Americans and a lot would answer that they like the fact that they are more "free" and "open minded". There's a bunch of videos like that on youtube [1][2]. Nowadays I don't think people would say the same stuff[3]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqXLxCU-fY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqXLxCU-fY [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_E38TJpU6Q&t=451s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_E38TJpU6Q&t=451s [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlu624glKw&t=432s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlu624glKw&t=432s
    - frequentnapper 6y ago
      it doesn't matter. chinese citizen opinion doesn't matter to the chinese govt. Western companies lose by trying to play fair against the chinese companies. This is all in accordance with game theory. By trying to be nice, we will be wiped out. The only choice we have now is to fight dirty like them.
      - archibaldJ 6y ago
        You may be surprised to find out how much Chinese citizen opinions matter to the Chinese Govt. State-sponsored censorship (like the one in RPC) exists to meddle with public opinions. Denial of access to information is a mean, not an end. Artificial consents are being manufactured via the media on both sides. Just done differently, largely because one way is more cost-efficient and cost-effective than the other in terms of the place’s GPD per capital. $10,262 [65th in the world] vs $65,111 [7th] (IMF, 2019)
spamizbad 6y ago
If you think the American way is superior why are you so quick to throw it in the trash to adopt China's policies? Or is it your view the American way deficient and we should learn from China?
- babl-yc 6y ago
  I'd love to have Chinese entrepreneurs have full access to the US markets and vice versa. However, if the business environment becomes unfair I believe the other party has the right to push back. I don't believe the US is going about it the best way, but I believe it has the right to push. Would much rather have clear and consistent policies as to when actions are taken and how to rectify.
- abc-xyz 6y ago
  I think most people would agree that the American way is superior, but that doesn’t mean that it will work with parties unwilling to participate. Luckily it’s only China that refuse to play by the rules, which means that you can easily remove them from the game without changing the game or adopting their policies.
  - bluntfang 6y ago
    >I think most people would agree that the American way is superior have you be experiencing the pandemic in America?
    - abc-xyz 6y ago
      How’s this relevant when we’re talking about countries banning foreign (internet) companies from their market? Besides, open markets are not exclusive to America, and plenty of open and democratic countries have done a far better job than China (who’re 100% responsible for the pandemic) with regard to the Wuhan Virus.

mciancia 6y ago

Is it banned just because, or maybe it's not following local laws?

babl-yc 6y ago
China routinely blocks US websites without explanation. It's generally so that the government can have control over what communication happens over the internet. https://techcrunch.com/2009/07/07/china-blocks-access-to-twitter-facebook-after-riots/ https://techcrunch.com/2009/07/07/china-blocks-access-to-twi...
baby 6y ago
Most US apps are banned in China to allow Chinese competitors to flourish.

baby 6y ago

I actually see this rhetoric a lot, and I'm not completely disagreeing with it, but at the same time I'm scared of the effects of playing the same game with the CCP and the ramifications of such move: it seems to always end up in a "us versus them" scenario which further divides the world. If you see a few people backing the US government's decision of attacking Chinese apps, imagine how the Chinese people are being brainwashed to hate on the US gov for attacking Chinese apps. IMO it is only with leading by example that we can change the situation, and the situation will change when China gets wealthy enough, and we shouldn't be scared of China becoming wealthy and joining our ranks.

babl-yc 6y ago
US could definitely do a better job of leading by example here while still fighting for a more level playing field. I don't like the idea of trusting the executive branch to arbitrarily ban apps. Would much prefer a clear policy as to when and why actions are taken, and what policy changes could be done to avoid them altogether.
prh8 6y ago
Is there benefit to setting an example that Chinese citizens would never see anyways?
- baby 6y ago
  believe me they see it, a couple years back you could ask Chinese people in the street what they thought of Americans and a lot would answer that they like the fact that they are more "free" and "open minded". There's a bunch of videos like that on youtube [1][2]. Nowadays I don't think people would say the same stuff[3]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqXLxCU-fY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gqXLxCU-fY [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_E38TJpU6Q&t=451s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_E38TJpU6Q&t=451s [3]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlu624glKw&t=432s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOlu624glKw&t=432s
  - frequentnapper 6y ago
    it doesn't matter. chinese citizen opinion doesn't matter to the chinese govt. Western companies lose by trying to play fair against the chinese companies. This is all in accordance with game theory. By trying to be nice, we will be wiped out. The only choice we have now is to fight dirty like them.
    - archibaldJ 6y ago
      You may be surprised to find out how much Chinese citizen opinions matter to the Chinese Govt. State-sponsored censorship (like the one in RPC) exists to meddle with public opinions. Denial of access to information is a mean, not an end. Artificial consents are being manufactured via the media on both sides. Just done differently, largely because one way is more cost-efficient and cost-effective than the other in terms of the place’s GPD per capital. $10,262 [65th in the world] vs $65,111 [7th] (IMF, 2019)

spamizbad 6y ago

If you think the American way is superior why are you so quick to throw it in the trash to adopt China's policies? Or is it your view the American way deficient and we should learn from China?

babl-yc 6y ago
I'd love to have Chinese entrepreneurs have full access to the US markets and vice versa. However, if the business environment becomes unfair I believe the other party has the right to push back. I don't believe the US is going about it the best way, but I believe it has the right to push. Would much rather have clear and consistent policies as to when actions are taken and how to rectify.
abc-xyz 6y ago
I think most people would agree that the American way is superior, but that doesn’t mean that it will work with parties unwilling to participate. Luckily it’s only China that refuse to play by the rules, which means that you can easily remove them from the game without changing the game or adopting their policies.
- bluntfang 6y ago
  >I think most people would agree that the American way is superior have you be experiencing the pandemic in America?
  - abc-xyz 6y ago
    How’s this relevant when we’re talking about countries banning foreign (internet) companies from their market? Besides, open markets are not exclusive to America, and plenty of open and democratic countries have done a far better job than China (who’re 100% responsible for the pandemic) with regard to the Wuhan Virus.