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I feel like learning to safely land whatever plane I'm flying in is just due diligence. I wish each seat had a simulator for the current aircraft available as a

I feel like learning to safely land whatever plane I'm flying in is just due diligence. I wish each seat had a simulator for the current aircraft available as an entertainment option, for me to brush up on in case everyone else who could fly it chooses the wrong entree for dinner. You know the toy steering wheels that children play with in cars? Like that.

disposedtrolley 6y ago
That would be awesome, but it would also mean that IFE systems would actually need to be made well! The current ones from Panasonic seem to have caught up to the original iPad: https://www.panasonic.aero/our-offerings/systems/x-series-block-version/ https://www.panasonic.aero/our-offerings/systems/x-series-bl...
- niklasrde 6y ago
  It’s hard! They’re not slow by choice, they’re slow because of the years it takes for safety approvals, testing, and certification to complete. I’ve met a creative director who’s responsible for Norwegian’s IFE last year, and she was telling me about some of the crazy challenges it is to try and work with the hardware and software constraints they get. The software teams certainly have the resources and knowledge to build a great, modern platform.
  - jamiehall 6y ago
    > Nearly every element [of an airplane seat] undergoes a safety-enhancing process called “delethalization”: seats have to withstand an impact equal to sixteen times the force of gravity [and many other constraints] .... Largely as a result, in-flight entertainment systems are almost unbelievably expensive. The rule of thumb, I was told, is “a thousand dollars an inch”—meaning that the small screen in the back of each economy seat can cost an airline ten thousand dollars, plus a few thousand for its handheld controller. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/04/21/game-of-thrones https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/04/21/game-of-throne...
    - pmoriarty 6y ago
      Can someone explain how an object that can withstand and impact equal to sixteen times the force of gravity is not going to be lethal to the person who's face hits it? I've always wondered why screens in the back of seats were allowed, as they seem to clearly be an additional hazard compared to a nice soft cushioned seat back that they displaced.
    - disposedtrolley 6y ago
      That’s fascinating! Thanks for sharing both of you - I had an inkling that regulation and testing has a massive impact on the usability of IFEs. I know some airlines supply an iPad which can be mounted to the back of the headrest and needs to be stowed at takeoff or landing. I wonder what kind of testing would be required for those setups.
Svip 6y ago
The pilot and co-pilot are not allowed to eat the same thing for this reason.
gruez 6y ago
>in case everyone else who could fly it chooses the wrong entree for dinner. I thought modern airliners can auto-land? All you need is someone to walk you through dialing in the numbers.
- paranoidrobot 6y ago
  Unfortunately this is typical "All you need is..." fallacy. Even assuming for a moment that yes, all you need to do is dial in the numbers... Have you ever tried to run tech support over a dodgy phone connection to someone who's never touched technology before? Where one wrong button push turns off all of that automation? Where there's no chance to go "Ooops, undo that!"? Where it's a very high stress situation, involving a huge number of acronyms? Even just managing radios could be a major problem - you may quickly find yourself out of range of the controllers, and if you haven't figured out how to ask for and change frequency, well you're now not talking to anyone.
- aaronmdjones 6y ago
  First you need to know how to use the radio to ask for that help. Just putting the headset on isn't enough; finding the microphone button is half the battle, and then you need to know what frequency to tune to, and how. Then you need to follow along with those instructions. Even assuming everything goes perfectly up to that point, the plane can only /land/ itself -- assuming you're approaching an ILS autoland-capable runway, in a plane with autoland equipment installed. You still have to idle the engines on touchdown and engage reverse thrust. You may have to keep the aircraft on the runway centreline after touchdown. Then you need to shut down the engines so emergency vehicles can approach and passengers can evacuate safely. It's not as simple as "dialling in the numbers".
  - bleepblorp 6y ago
    In addition to that, you also need to know how to: Read the instruments. This is non-trivial with modern glass cockpits as the readings on the screen don't necessarily have labels. Set the flaps at the right time. Too soon and you'll tear the wings off or run out of fuel before you make it to the runway. Too late and you will be flying too fast to land. Lower the gear, again at the right time to prevent them being torn off by airflow or not being down when you hit the runway. Know that, once on the ground, the nose gear is steered with the footpedals and not the sidestick (Airbus) or yolk (Boeing). Set the autobrake so you don't need to brake manually at touchdown. If you get this right, you don't need to mess with reverse thrust. It would be helpful to know how to turn off the cabin pressurization system so no one is blown out the doors when they are opened. Even if you're lucky enough to get all this right, you're only going to make a smoking hole somewhere near the runway if there's any significant crosswind.
jacquesm 6y ago
The salmon mousse strikes again...

disposedtrolley 6y ago

That would be awesome, but it would also mean that IFE systems would actually need to be made well! The current ones from Panasonic seem to have caught up to the original iPad: https://www.panasonic.aero/our-offerings/systems/x-series-block-version/ https://www.panasonic.aero/our-offerings/systems/x-series-bl...

niklasrde 6y ago
It’s hard! They’re not slow by choice, they’re slow because of the years it takes for safety approvals, testing, and certification to complete. I’ve met a creative director who’s responsible for Norwegian’s IFE last year, and she was telling me about some of the crazy challenges it is to try and work with the hardware and software constraints they get. The software teams certainly have the resources and knowledge to build a great, modern platform.
- jamiehall 6y ago
  > Nearly every element [of an airplane seat] undergoes a safety-enhancing process called “delethalization”: seats have to withstand an impact equal to sixteen times the force of gravity [and many other constraints] .... Largely as a result, in-flight entertainment systems are almost unbelievably expensive. The rule of thumb, I was told, is “a thousand dollars an inch”—meaning that the small screen in the back of each economy seat can cost an airline ten thousand dollars, plus a few thousand for its handheld controller. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/04/21/game-of-thrones https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/04/21/game-of-throne...
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    Can someone explain how an object that can withstand and impact equal to sixteen times the force of gravity is not going to be lethal to the person who's face hits it? I've always wondered why screens in the back of seats were allowed, as they seem to clearly be an additional hazard compared to a nice soft cushioned seat back that they displaced.
  - disposedtrolley 6y ago
    That’s fascinating! Thanks for sharing both of you - I had an inkling that regulation and testing has a massive impact on the usability of IFEs. I know some airlines supply an iPad which can be mounted to the back of the headrest and needs to be stowed at takeoff or landing. I wonder what kind of testing would be required for those setups.

Svip 6y ago

The pilot and co-pilot are not allowed to eat the same thing for this reason.

gruez 6y ago

>in case everyone else who could fly it chooses the wrong entree for dinner. I thought modern airliners can auto-land? All you need is someone to walk you through dialing in the numbers.

paranoidrobot 6y ago
Unfortunately this is typical "All you need is..." fallacy. Even assuming for a moment that yes, all you need to do is dial in the numbers... Have you ever tried to run tech support over a dodgy phone connection to someone who's never touched technology before? Where one wrong button push turns off all of that automation? Where there's no chance to go "Ooops, undo that!"? Where it's a very high stress situation, involving a huge number of acronyms? Even just managing radios could be a major problem - you may quickly find yourself out of range of the controllers, and if you haven't figured out how to ask for and change frequency, well you're now not talking to anyone.
aaronmdjones 6y ago
First you need to know how to use the radio to ask for that help. Just putting the headset on isn't enough; finding the microphone button is half the battle, and then you need to know what frequency to tune to, and how. Then you need to follow along with those instructions. Even assuming everything goes perfectly up to that point, the plane can only /land/ itself -- assuming you're approaching an ILS autoland-capable runway, in a plane with autoland equipment installed. You still have to idle the engines on touchdown and engage reverse thrust. You may have to keep the aircraft on the runway centreline after touchdown. Then you need to shut down the engines so emergency vehicles can approach and passengers can evacuate safely. It's not as simple as "dialling in the numbers".
- bleepblorp 6y ago
  In addition to that, you also need to know how to: Read the instruments. This is non-trivial with modern glass cockpits as the readings on the screen don't necessarily have labels. Set the flaps at the right time. Too soon and you'll tear the wings off or run out of fuel before you make it to the runway. Too late and you will be flying too fast to land. Lower the gear, again at the right time to prevent them being torn off by airflow or not being down when you hit the runway. Know that, once on the ground, the nose gear is steered with the footpedals and not the sidestick (Airbus) or yolk (Boeing). Set the autobrake so you don't need to brake manually at touchdown. If you get this right, you don't need to mess with reverse thrust. It would be helpful to know how to turn off the cabin pressurization system so no one is blown out the doors when they are opened. Even if you're lucky enough to get all this right, you're only going to make a smoking hole somewhere near the runway if there's any significant crosswind.

jacquesm 6y ago

The salmon mousse strikes again...