9 ms·

His voice is unbelievably recognizable a pilot voice. Is this something (commercial?) British pilots learn during their training?

bartvk 6y ago
Authoritative and soothing at the same time.
thom 6y ago
I assume it's not so much that, and more that it's another industry with a sub-optimal diversity record.
- thom 6y ago
  I appreciate the downvotes, but there is a reason that most people in this job (that costs tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds to train for) sound reassuringly like a middle class man. I am not trying to make anyone feel bad for noticing the pattern, and certainly not for enjoying planes or computer games, but given that the UK government, industry groups like IATA, and several airlines all admit the issue, let's all take a deep breath.
  - sk5t 6y ago
    A wide diversity of humans can and have learned to speak the pilot/ATC dialect and cadence; and, English is the generally accepted lingua franca for flight. I am not sure how class enters the equation, although it seems to me likely that travelers would prefer to hear neither George Plimpton nor an East-End eelmonger over the intercom.
    - thom 6y ago
      There are probably thousands of people who would be better pilots than the current average, who have no hope of ever qualifying because of either the cost, or the traditional hiring/training patterns of airlines. Maybe that doesn't bother you as a passenger, but it does seem to bother the airlines themselves, who keep introducing programs to address the issue which everyone here clearly knows better than them about.
      - bluedevil2k 6y ago
        Because all the pilots on Ethiopian Air are British middle class white people, right?
        dylan604 6y ago
        Just hand the poor soul a shovel. It'll make the hole he's digging for himself easier.
        thom 6y ago
        My point isn’t that planes are racist, as I suspect you know. All I’m saying is the reason most pilots on UK airlines sound the same is because they are the same. Whenever there’s an occupation where we might have a clear cut image of what those people look or sound like (lawyers, doctors, journalists) that’s some small indication that there’s probably a diversity issue at play. You can argue it doesn’t matter, and look, I even said “sub-optimal” up there, I wasn’t trying to call anyone evil. And while race and gender are issues I was also just as much thinking about working class kids’ access to these career paths because of the enormous debts they might have to run up. I share this viewpoint with such radical leftist organisations as the British Airline Pilots’ Association.
        PhantomGremlin 6y ago
        I don't know about the UK, but in the USA, many pilots come from the military. In the USA, if you want to learn to fly for free, rather than with "enormous debts", it's simple. All you do is go thru the US Air Force Academy. They take black, white, male, female. They will train you for "free". Yes it requires a service commitment but it's by-and-large a meritocracy. In the USA you're not entitled to pilot training merely for the sake of "diversity". Pay your dues, earn your way. I had a cousin who did it. He flew jets for the US Air Force for years. He then became a commercial pilot.
- sgt 6y ago
  What if I told you diversity record doesn't matter as much as you think it does? You've been brainwashed by left-wing media.
  - thom 6y ago
    In classic Hacker News style, you're now being downvoted too. So clearly the truth is somewhere between "diversity matters" and "diversity doesn't matter". Who knows?! Best not talk about it.
    - antioink 6y ago
      For a site that supposedly prides itself on discussions that gratify one's intellectual curiosity, there certainly are some jarring taboos on acceptable topics to be curious about.
      - PhantomGremlin 6y ago
        I stole this from somewhere, don't recall exactly where. It is a simple one-sentence explanation of HN zeitgeist: HN is open minded about intellectual inquiry as long as that inquiry doesn't challenge anything an average Californian already believes
    - hugh-avherald 6y ago
      Abortions for some, minature American flags for others.
      - sgt 6y ago
        Wait. Minature flags are controversial?
    - pmoriarty 6y ago
      From the HN guidelines[1]: "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "Eschew flamebait. "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys the curiosity this site exists for." Now please consider how many of these guidelines the "You've been brainwashed by left-wing media" insult violated. The comment was downvoted not because it "told the truth" or talked about a taboo subject, but because it violated the community norms of keeping the site friendly, and making substantial, thoughtful comments. Now if the poster had omitted the insult and actually substantiated their claim about diversity not mattering much instead of making a throwaway comment about it, they probably would have gotten a bunch of upvotes and maybe even sparked a lively debate. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- netsharc 6y ago
  Geez, you seem to have a hard-on for this "more diversity!" issue. Does it matter much for piloting? It's quite a mechanical job. I'd argue diversity matters more if you have a team of movie writers (how many movies have terrible female/minority characters because of the diversity problems?) or UX designers, but I don't think your race or gender matters much when piloting a plane... Of course there is probably currently an excess of white male pilots, but that seems cultural and a socio-economic problem, if you fix the culture (e.g. if little girls also get asked equally as often as little boys if they'd like to be a pilot (instead of a nurse; or if the same percentage of black folks can afford pilot school as white folks), shouldn't this problem fix itself? Personally I'd cheer on a pilot scholarship for disadvantaged groups, because it'd be nice to see them having some sort of advantage in reaching their dreams after hundreds of years of disadvantages, but I don't think having more black or female pilots would change the job, since, as I said, it's quite a mechanical job. Whereas having a woman or minority in a movie writing crew would probably make a better story due to a more diverse perspective.
  - thom 6y ago
    These sorts of scholarships increasingly do exist, and I’m confused that you both acknowledge the problem and insult me for raising it. I also think it’s unbelievably patronising if you think the only benefit of diversity is better movie scripts. I support equal rights for mediocre scriptwriters too.
    - netsharc 6y ago
      You seem keen on finding the ways people are insulting you. Those 2 examples aren't great, but I don't mean I only care about those fields. Different voices in the boardroom? I'd say a good thing. Different voices in the cockpit? What the hell difference is that going to make, will the plane fly better due to diversity? The pilots are presumably trained to fly the planes as optimally as they can, and their gender or race shouldn't make a difference to the way they operate these machines...
      - thom 6y ago
duskwuff 6y ago
Given how much pilots and ATCs talk among each other on the radio, I suppose it isn't all that surprising that they would develop an identifiable accent.
- dylan604 6y ago
  Calm, level inflection with no emotion. Everyone starts to sound the same.
bredren 6y ago
It is often said that many pilots emulate Chuck Yeager's voice.[1] Yeager was a US test pilot and jet flying ace. Tom Wolfe has a great novel about Yeager and other test pilots called "The Right Stuff." [1] https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/silky-smooth-chuck-yeager-voice?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3 https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/silky-smooth-chuck-ye... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np272lmVRkU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np272lmVRkU
- ojbyrne 6y ago
  The Right Stuff is non-fiction, not a novel.
  - bredren 6y ago
    Ah, I had remembered it written as a story. Presumed it took some dramatic liberties / based on a true story.
  - frosted-flakes 6y ago
    Some non-fiction books can read very much like novels, even if the term technically doesn't apply to them. These are sometimes called "non-fiction novels". A great example is Endurance by Alfred Lansing, which tells the story of Shackleton's incredible expedition to Antarctica in 1914. It is apparently a very accurate re-telling, and a book that I highly recommend. Even though I knew the outcome of the expedition, the book was suspenseful to the very end, and surprisingly character-driven.
    - bredren 6y ago
      This reminds me of reading Maya Angelou’s _I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings_ in high school. I asked our teacher (who also made us memorize the opening to beouwouf) how Angelou could remember some of the quotes. I recall the teacher’s response being something like, “this is what she remembers” Looking at that book now in the context of this thread I found this: >Reviewers often categorize Caged Bird as autobiographical fiction because Angelou uses thematic development and other techniques common to fiction, but the prevailing critical view characterizes it as an autobiography, a genre she attempts to critique, change, and expand.
HenryKissinger 6y ago
From the blackbird copypasta: Now the thing to understand about Center controllers, was that whether they were talking to a rookie pilot in a Cessna, or to Air Force One, they always spoke in the exact same, calm, deep, professional, tone that made one feel important. I referred to it as the " Houston Center voice." I have always felt that after years of seeing documentaries on this country's space program and listening to the calm and distinct voice of the Houston controllers, that all other controllers since then wanted to sound like that, and that they basically did. And it didn't matter what sector of the country we would be flying in, it always seemed like the same guy was talking. Over the years that tone of voice had become somewhat of a comforting sound to pilots everywhere. Conversely, over the years, pilots always wanted to ensure that, when transmitting, they sounded like Chuck Yeager, or at least like John Wayne. Better to die than sound bad on the radios.
- schoen 6y ago
  In case people haven't read the whole original: https://www.thesr71blackbird.com/Aircraft/Stories/sr-71-blackbird-speed-check-story https://www.thesr71blackbird.com/Aircraft/Stories/sr-71-blac...
bhupy 6y ago
I think it’s the subtle audio interference combined with the distinctive commercial pilot vocal fry.
dylan604 6y ago
I enjoyed having Harry Kane flying the plane. Good to see he's got a fall back when his footy career ends.

bartvk 6y ago

Authoritative and soothing at the same time.

thom 6y ago

I assume it's not so much that, and more that it's another industry with a sub-optimal diversity record.

thom 6y ago
I appreciate the downvotes, but there is a reason that most people in this job (that costs tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds to train for) sound reassuringly like a middle class man. I am not trying to make anyone feel bad for noticing the pattern, and certainly not for enjoying planes or computer games, but given that the UK government, industry groups like IATA, and several airlines all admit the issue, let's all take a deep breath.
- sk5t 6y ago
  A wide diversity of humans can and have learned to speak the pilot/ATC dialect and cadence; and, English is the generally accepted lingua franca for flight. I am not sure how class enters the equation, although it seems to me likely that travelers would prefer to hear neither George Plimpton nor an East-End eelmonger over the intercom.
  - thom 6y ago
    There are probably thousands of people who would be better pilots than the current average, who have no hope of ever qualifying because of either the cost, or the traditional hiring/training patterns of airlines. Maybe that doesn't bother you as a passenger, but it does seem to bother the airlines themselves, who keep introducing programs to address the issue which everyone here clearly knows better than them about.
    - bluedevil2k 6y ago
      Because all the pilots on Ethiopian Air are British middle class white people, right?
      - dylan604 6y ago
        Just hand the poor soul a shovel. It'll make the hole he's digging for himself easier.
      - thom 6y ago
        My point isn’t that planes are racist, as I suspect you know. All I’m saying is the reason most pilots on UK airlines sound the same is because they are the same. Whenever there’s an occupation where we might have a clear cut image of what those people look or sound like (lawyers, doctors, journalists) that’s some small indication that there’s probably a diversity issue at play. You can argue it doesn’t matter, and look, I even said “sub-optimal” up there, I wasn’t trying to call anyone evil. And while race and gender are issues I was also just as much thinking about working class kids’ access to these career paths because of the enormous debts they might have to run up. I share this viewpoint with such radical leftist organisations as the British Airline Pilots’ Association.
        PhantomGremlin 6y ago
        I don't know about the UK, but in the USA, many pilots come from the military. In the USA, if you want to learn to fly for free, rather than with "enormous debts", it's simple. All you do is go thru the US Air Force Academy. They take black, white, male, female. They will train you for "free". Yes it requires a service commitment but it's by-and-large a meritocracy. In the USA you're not entitled to pilot training merely for the sake of "diversity". Pay your dues, earn your way. I had a cousin who did it. He flew jets for the US Air Force for years. He then became a commercial pilot.
sgt 6y ago
What if I told you diversity record doesn't matter as much as you think it does? You've been brainwashed by left-wing media.
- thom 6y ago
  In classic Hacker News style, you're now being downvoted too. So clearly the truth is somewhere between "diversity matters" and "diversity doesn't matter". Who knows?! Best not talk about it.
  - antioink 6y ago
    For a site that supposedly prides itself on discussions that gratify one's intellectual curiosity, there certainly are some jarring taboos on acceptable topics to be curious about.
    - PhantomGremlin 6y ago
      I stole this from somewhere, don't recall exactly where. It is a simple one-sentence explanation of HN zeitgeist: HN is open minded about intellectual inquiry as long as that inquiry doesn't challenge anything an average Californian already believes
  - hugh-avherald 6y ago
    Abortions for some, minature American flags for others.
    - sgt 6y ago
      Wait. Minature flags are controversial?
  - pmoriarty 6y ago
    From the HN guidelines[1]: "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. "When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "Eschew flamebait. "Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys the curiosity this site exists for." Now please consider how many of these guidelines the "You've been brainwashed by left-wing media" insult violated. The comment was downvoted not because it "told the truth" or talked about a taboo subject, but because it violated the community norms of keeping the site friendly, and making substantial, thoughtful comments. Now if the poster had omitted the insult and actually substantiated their claim about diversity not mattering much instead of making a throwaway comment about it, they probably would have gotten a bunch of upvotes and maybe even sparked a lively debate. [1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
netsharc 6y ago
Geez, you seem to have a hard-on for this "more diversity!" issue. Does it matter much for piloting? It's quite a mechanical job. I'd argue diversity matters more if you have a team of movie writers (how many movies have terrible female/minority characters because of the diversity problems?) or UX designers, but I don't think your race or gender matters much when piloting a plane... Of course there is probably currently an excess of white male pilots, but that seems cultural and a socio-economic problem, if you fix the culture (e.g. if little girls also get asked equally as often as little boys if they'd like to be a pilot (instead of a nurse; or if the same percentage of black folks can afford pilot school as white folks), shouldn't this problem fix itself? Personally I'd cheer on a pilot scholarship for disadvantaged groups, because it'd be nice to see them having some sort of advantage in reaching their dreams after hundreds of years of disadvantages, but I don't think having more black or female pilots would change the job, since, as I said, it's quite a mechanical job. Whereas having a woman or minority in a movie writing crew would probably make a better story due to a more diverse perspective.
- thom 6y ago
  These sorts of scholarships increasingly do exist, and I’m confused that you both acknowledge the problem and insult me for raising it. I also think it’s unbelievably patronising if you think the only benefit of diversity is better movie scripts. I support equal rights for mediocre scriptwriters too.
  - netsharc 6y ago
    You seem keen on finding the ways people are insulting you. Those 2 examples aren't great, but I don't mean I only care about those fields. Different voices in the boardroom? I'd say a good thing. Different voices in the cockpit? What the hell difference is that going to make, will the plane fly better due to diversity? The pilots are presumably trained to fly the planes as optimally as they can, and their gender or race shouldn't make a difference to the way they operate these machines...
    - thom 6y ago

duskwuff 6y ago

Given how much pilots and ATCs talk among each other on the radio, I suppose it isn't all that surprising that they would develop an identifiable accent.

dylan604 6y ago
Calm, level inflection with no emotion. Everyone starts to sound the same.

bredren 6y ago

It is often said that many pilots emulate Chuck Yeager's voice.[1] Yeager was a US test pilot and jet flying ace. Tom Wolfe has a great novel about Yeager and other test pilots called "The Right Stuff." [1] https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/silky-smooth-chuck-yeager-voice?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3 https://www.wearethemighty.com/history/silky-smooth-chuck-ye... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np272lmVRkU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np272lmVRkU

ojbyrne 6y ago
The Right Stuff is non-fiction, not a novel.
- bredren 6y ago
  Ah, I had remembered it written as a story. Presumed it took some dramatic liberties / based on a true story.
- frosted-flakes 6y ago
  Some non-fiction books can read very much like novels, even if the term technically doesn't apply to them. These are sometimes called "non-fiction novels". A great example is Endurance by Alfred Lansing, which tells the story of Shackleton's incredible expedition to Antarctica in 1914. It is apparently a very accurate re-telling, and a book that I highly recommend. Even though I knew the outcome of the expedition, the book was suspenseful to the very end, and surprisingly character-driven.
  - bredren 6y ago
    This reminds me of reading Maya Angelou’s _I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings_ in high school. I asked our teacher (who also made us memorize the opening to beouwouf) how Angelou could remember some of the quotes. I recall the teacher’s response being something like, “this is what she remembers” Looking at that book now in the context of this thread I found this: >Reviewers often categorize Caged Bird as autobiographical fiction because Angelou uses thematic development and other techniques common to fiction, but the prevailing critical view characterizes it as an autobiography, a genre she attempts to critique, change, and expand.

HenryKissinger 6y ago

From the blackbird copypasta: Now the thing to understand about Center controllers, was that whether they were talking to a rookie pilot in a Cessna, or to Air Force One, they always spoke in the exact same, calm, deep, professional, tone that made one feel important. I referred to it as the " Houston Center voice." I have always felt that after years of seeing documentaries on this country's space program and listening to the calm and distinct voice of the Houston controllers, that all other controllers since then wanted to sound like that, and that they basically did. And it didn't matter what sector of the country we would be flying in, it always seemed like the same guy was talking. Over the years that tone of voice had become somewhat of a comforting sound to pilots everywhere. Conversely, over the years, pilots always wanted to ensure that, when transmitting, they sounded like Chuck Yeager, or at least like John Wayne. Better to die than sound bad on the radios.

schoen 6y ago
In case people haven't read the whole original: https://www.thesr71blackbird.com/Aircraft/Stories/sr-71-blackbird-speed-check-story https://www.thesr71blackbird.com/Aircraft/Stories/sr-71-blac...

bhupy 6y ago

I think it’s the subtle audio interference combined with the distinctive commercial pilot vocal fry.

dylan604 6y ago

I enjoyed having Harry Kane flying the plane. Good to see he's got a fall back when his footy career ends.