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I don't know; I understand the cynicism here.. But can we assume an optimistic scenario where vendors are able to properly address the security implications and

I don't know; I understand the cynicism here.. But can we assume an optimistic scenario where vendors are able to properly address the security implications and this enables web developers to build all kinds of new applications? I for one would love to be able to write web applications that could, say, control the lights in my house or smart devices. I hate interfacing with my phone to control these types of actions; I don't have the same bandwidth with my phone as I do with a full-blown computer, and therefore use my phone as little as possible. Therefore, I am closed off from really having fine-grained control over the devices on my LAN. Using the browser for this type of behavior would be awesome, IMO.

edoceo 6y ago
You lost me at "assume an optimistic scenario where vendors are able to properly address the security implication".
adriancr 6y ago
Home assistant?, ifttt?, raspberry pi with zigbee/zwave module?, smart devices with web hooks? You probably can control most smart devides with web apis, check out home assistant code for that... But they go to manufacturers portal. Too bad most manufacturers have an interest in you paying them subscriptions...
nobodyandproud 6y ago
The cynicism isn’t fully appreciated, if the optimistic scenario is assumed. Security is hard, and exposing more by default (or making it defacto required) is simply asking for trouble.
- zepto 6y ago
  It’s funny - in the arguments about Apple and the App Store, I’ve seen plenty of people making the opposite case - ‘it’s not scary out there’, the security benefits of the App Store are ‘bullshit’, etc.
  - nobodyandproud 6y ago
    Using both I prefer Apple’s philosophy. I like Google’s stock phone and features more, but I like that Apple is strict about about something that has my personal info. It’s worth the money.
skywhopper 6y ago
No, we have decades of evidence (including state of the art tech, right now, today) that argues against your optimistic scenario. In fact, Chrome is basically a piece of spyware as is. Google has no incentive to protect your privacy. How much worse will it get if the browser can reach into your LAN?
- nikkwong 6y ago
  Yeah I agree. The browser does seem to be the preeminent attack vector since it's the easiest way for actors to reach into your systems. I can imagine the next generation of ransomware where your smart devices are held hostage for small-ish ransoms. To your point about privacy, yeah I also agree. I think the real evil here is how implicit the exploitation of trust is with using Chrome and Google services. Ideally the privacy disclaimers should be more pronounced and end users should know what exactly they're giving up by using these products. I come from the Chinese mindset where privacy doesn't have the capital P like it does in the US. Most Chinese are fine with the government and private industry infiltrating their lives if the net effect is that their lives are improved. I think a lot of them have not fully weighed the cost-benefit analysis properly, and who knows if there ever will be a tipping point event where people decide technology has too deep a hand in their inner-lives. I think most people in the US have yet to encounter the potentially dire consequences of the slow erosion of their privacy. Who knows, maybe the net effect for most consumers will always be positive. I'm still using Chrome, Gmail, and am locked into Google's net, but I like to think it's something I'm cognizant of, and paying attention to from far away.
  - mr_toad 6y ago
    > your smart devices are held hostage for small-ish ransoms. I thought the vendors did this already. But maybe the ransomware developers will do a better job supporting the smart devices than the actual vendors.
    - nikkwong 6y ago
      Hahah. That made me laugh out loud. The idea of having a more open standard to be able to talk to devices in other people's houses is an a pandora's box; but I could also see a lot of interesting use cases. I'm just toying with the idea of warming the color temperature of the lights in my parent's house at night to help them sleep (since I can't get them to care enough themselves). Or think about some type of live poster that your circle of friends streams content to. I'm sure there are tons of interesting possibilities.
xg15 6y ago
> I for one would love to be able to write web applications that could, say, control the lights in my house or smart devices. You can also do so, you just need to install some companion software locally for that to work.

edoceo 6y ago

You lost me at "assume an optimistic scenario where vendors are able to properly address the security implication".

adriancr 6y ago

Home assistant?, ifttt?, raspberry pi with zigbee/zwave module?, smart devices with web hooks? You probably can control most smart devides with web apis, check out home assistant code for that... But they go to manufacturers portal. Too bad most manufacturers have an interest in you paying them subscriptions...

nobodyandproud 6y ago

The cynicism isn’t fully appreciated, if the optimistic scenario is assumed. Security is hard, and exposing more by default (or making it defacto required) is simply asking for trouble.

zepto 6y ago
It’s funny - in the arguments about Apple and the App Store, I’ve seen plenty of people making the opposite case - ‘it’s not scary out there’, the security benefits of the App Store are ‘bullshit’, etc.
- nobodyandproud 6y ago
  Using both I prefer Apple’s philosophy. I like Google’s stock phone and features more, but I like that Apple is strict about about something that has my personal info. It’s worth the money.

skywhopper 6y ago

No, we have decades of evidence (including state of the art tech, right now, today) that argues against your optimistic scenario. In fact, Chrome is basically a piece of spyware as is. Google has no incentive to protect your privacy. How much worse will it get if the browser can reach into your LAN?

nikkwong 6y ago
Yeah I agree. The browser does seem to be the preeminent attack vector since it's the easiest way for actors to reach into your systems. I can imagine the next generation of ransomware where your smart devices are held hostage for small-ish ransoms. To your point about privacy, yeah I also agree. I think the real evil here is how implicit the exploitation of trust is with using Chrome and Google services. Ideally the privacy disclaimers should be more pronounced and end users should know what exactly they're giving up by using these products. I come from the Chinese mindset where privacy doesn't have the capital P like it does in the US. Most Chinese are fine with the government and private industry infiltrating their lives if the net effect is that their lives are improved. I think a lot of them have not fully weighed the cost-benefit analysis properly, and who knows if there ever will be a tipping point event where people decide technology has too deep a hand in their inner-lives. I think most people in the US have yet to encounter the potentially dire consequences of the slow erosion of their privacy. Who knows, maybe the net effect for most consumers will always be positive. I'm still using Chrome, Gmail, and am locked into Google's net, but I like to think it's something I'm cognizant of, and paying attention to from far away.
- mr_toad 6y ago
  > your smart devices are held hostage for small-ish ransoms. I thought the vendors did this already. But maybe the ransomware developers will do a better job supporting the smart devices than the actual vendors.
  - nikkwong 6y ago
    Hahah. That made me laugh out loud. The idea of having a more open standard to be able to talk to devices in other people's houses is an a pandora's box; but I could also see a lot of interesting use cases. I'm just toying with the idea of warming the color temperature of the lights in my parent's house at night to help them sleep (since I can't get them to care enough themselves). Or think about some type of live poster that your circle of friends streams content to. I'm sure there are tons of interesting possibilities.

xg15 6y ago

> I for one would love to be able to write web applications that could, say, control the lights in my house or smart devices. You can also do so, you just need to install some companion software locally for that to work.