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A quick Meta aside: Even if you absolutely utterly and completely loathe Apple for their App store policies, Epic is not the company you want to be backing. 1)

A quick Meta aside: Even if you absolutely utterly and completely loathe Apple for their App store policies, Epic is not the company you want to be backing. 1) They engage in anti-customer behavior by buying exclusives. They don't fund exclusives, they buy exclusives after they've been completed. 2) If they can't get an Indie as an exclusive, they don't want it. They don't want to compete with Day and Date releases. 3) Their war chest is funded by gambling mechanics, mostly gambling mechanics which are actively aimed at minors. While I can understand arguments for "parents should parent" and "adults should be allowed to adult", Epic is based out of the US, and gambling is largely controlled within the US. 4) EDIT: Oh, and their weaponizing their minor-heavy userbase as well against Apple - their trailer and anti-apple skins are being promoted in Fortnight (Rated T by the ESRB). So yeah. Hate Apple all you want - there's plenty there to hate. But don't let your hatred of Apple push you into backing Epic.

ohgodplsno 6y ago
>They don't fund exclusives, they buy exclusives after they've been completed. Timed exclusives, mind you. Also, it literally doesn't matter and just changes where you download the game from, woohoo. Absolutely support Epic on this endeavor. Anything that can make Apple eat shit is a valuable investment of your time.
- RHSeeger 6y ago
  It absolutely does matter, because every "app store" you install on your computer is one more attach vector you open up.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't post to HN in the flamewar style. It's not what this site is for.
istorical 6y ago
Two large evil corporations is better than one large evil corporation. It at least encourages consumer-friendly practices as a means of competition.
- falcolas 6y ago
  FWIW, I don't think history is proving this out. Apple and Google haven't exactly become bastions of customer friendliness, despite their competition in the mobile space. Nor have ISPs, Online Retailers, repair shops, etc.
_qulr 6y ago
> Their war chest is funded by gambling mechanics, mostly gambling mechanics which are actively aimed at minors. Funny that Apple wants a cut of this action. In fact the App Store was a giant contributor to the free with In App Purchase model of software, undermining the previous paid upfront model.
- falcolas 6y ago
  As I said, there's plenty to hate about Apple as well. But as bad as that IAP is for companies, it's actually not terrible for customers - they're only having to interact with one trusted party when it comes to their payments. The cost will be higher (which is not nice) since companies will pass that cost on to their customers. This in comparison to the wild west of submitting your payment information to every Tom, Dick and Mary out there.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > This in comparison to the wild west of submitting your payment information to every Tom, Dick and Mary out there. Somehow capitalism survived this situation in all of history prior to 2008. Also, Visa and Mastercard have a duopoly over payments, so it's not entirely accurate to say that it's the "wild west", or even that there weren't "trusted parties" before Apple. In my experience, the credit card companies are actually quite protective of customer payments, and you don't have to pay if there's fraud. They just cancel your card and send you a new one. It's largely the merchants who have to eat that cost.
    - falcolas 6y ago
      How many websites out there - who don't use a trusted third party like Stripe or PayPal - are you willing to submit your Visa or MC information to? My answer is pretty close to zero, with a few exceptions for large companies who have earned my trust with my payment information.
      - _qulr 6y ago
        I do it all the time, and have for decades. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Personally, I don't have much trust for PayPal or Stripe. PayPal is infamous for randomly banning accounts, for example.
zachm0 6y ago
> They don't fund exclusives, they buy exclusives after they've been completed. I see this a lot but I have yet to come across a good explanation of why this matters, could you explain? From my point of view it doesn't make a difference when the developer gets the money, an exclusive is an exclusive.
- oliwarner 6y ago
  Means people who want it on Steam (Linux, Big Picture, local and remote streaming, etc) have to wait. I tick all those boxes. I just want to honk.
- AkelaA 6y ago
  Not to mention it's a false statement. They do fund exclusives through their publishing arm, and are currently in the process of funding the next games by Remedy (creators of Control), Playdead (Limbo, Inside), and Gen Design (ex Team Ico team, responsible for The Last Guardian and such): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_m4LxDG1D4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_m4LxDG1D4 And according to Skybound Games CEO, Epic was also involved in helping to establish the team that completed development of The Walking Dead's final season after Telltale collapsed, so it wasn't just a case of Epic simply buying exclusivity after the fact: "We’re excited to work together on their latest transformative event with the launch of the Epic Games Store. Epic stepped up to the plate immediately to work with us in order to bring the original team back together and ensure fans will receive the completed season of ‘Telltale’s The Walking Dead: The Final Season.'”" https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/telltales-the-walking-dead-epic-games-store-1203093523/ https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/telltales-the-walking-d... And really, the same can be said for other exclusive games that are still in development, since money given to the devs is money that inevitably goes into the production of the game. By virtue meaning that they're helping to fund the game, at least in part.
Epskampie 6y ago
I'm not even sure what "backing" Epic would mean in this context, but if they somehow are able to force Apple to release it's dictatorial grip on the app store, I'm all for it. I don't really care what kind of company Epic is, the result counts.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

ohgodplsno 6y ago

>They don't fund exclusives, they buy exclusives after they've been completed. Timed exclusives, mind you. Also, it literally doesn't matter and just changes where you download the game from, woohoo. Absolutely support Epic on this endeavor. Anything that can make Apple eat shit is a valuable investment of your time.

RHSeeger 6y ago
It absolutely does matter, because every "app store" you install on your computer is one more attach vector you open up.
dang 6y ago
Please don't post to HN in the flamewar style. It's not what this site is for.

istorical 6y ago

Two large evil corporations is better than one large evil corporation. It at least encourages consumer-friendly practices as a means of competition.

falcolas 6y ago
FWIW, I don't think history is proving this out. Apple and Google haven't exactly become bastions of customer friendliness, despite their competition in the mobile space. Nor have ISPs, Online Retailers, repair shops, etc.

_qulr 6y ago

> Their war chest is funded by gambling mechanics, mostly gambling mechanics which are actively aimed at minors. Funny that Apple wants a cut of this action. In fact the App Store was a giant contributor to the free with In App Purchase model of software, undermining the previous paid upfront model.

falcolas 6y ago
As I said, there's plenty to hate about Apple as well. But as bad as that IAP is for companies, it's actually not terrible for customers - they're only having to interact with one trusted party when it comes to their payments. The cost will be higher (which is not nice) since companies will pass that cost on to their customers. This in comparison to the wild west of submitting your payment information to every Tom, Dick and Mary out there.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > This in comparison to the wild west of submitting your payment information to every Tom, Dick and Mary out there. Somehow capitalism survived this situation in all of history prior to 2008. Also, Visa and Mastercard have a duopoly over payments, so it's not entirely accurate to say that it's the "wild west", or even that there weren't "trusted parties" before Apple. In my experience, the credit card companies are actually quite protective of customer payments, and you don't have to pay if there's fraud. They just cancel your card and send you a new one. It's largely the merchants who have to eat that cost.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    How many websites out there - who don't use a trusted third party like Stripe or PayPal - are you willing to submit your Visa or MC information to? My answer is pretty close to zero, with a few exceptions for large companies who have earned my trust with my payment information.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      I do it all the time, and have for decades. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Personally, I don't have much trust for PayPal or Stripe. PayPal is infamous for randomly banning accounts, for example.

zachm0 6y ago

> They don't fund exclusives, they buy exclusives after they've been completed. I see this a lot but I have yet to come across a good explanation of why this matters, could you explain? From my point of view it doesn't make a difference when the developer gets the money, an exclusive is an exclusive.

oliwarner 6y ago
Means people who want it on Steam (Linux, Big Picture, local and remote streaming, etc) have to wait. I tick all those boxes. I just want to honk.
AkelaA 6y ago
Not to mention it's a false statement. They do fund exclusives through their publishing arm, and are currently in the process of funding the next games by Remedy (creators of Control), Playdead (Limbo, Inside), and Gen Design (ex Team Ico team, responsible for The Last Guardian and such): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_m4LxDG1D4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_m4LxDG1D4 And according to Skybound Games CEO, Epic was also involved in helping to establish the team that completed development of The Walking Dead's final season after Telltale collapsed, so it wasn't just a case of Epic simply buying exclusivity after the fact: "We’re excited to work together on their latest transformative event with the launch of the Epic Games Store. Epic stepped up to the plate immediately to work with us in order to bring the original team back together and ensure fans will receive the completed season of ‘Telltale’s The Walking Dead: The Final Season.'”" https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/telltales-the-walking-dead-epic-games-store-1203093523/ https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/telltales-the-walking-d... And really, the same can be said for other exclusive games that are still in development, since money given to the devs is money that inevitably goes into the production of the game. By virtue meaning that they're helping to fund the game, at least in part.

Epskampie 6y ago

I'm not even sure what "backing" Epic would mean in this context, but if they somehow are able to force Apple to release it's dictatorial grip on the app store, I'm all for it. I don't really care what kind of company Epic is, the result counts.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]