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How can Apple prevent an unrelated dev from publishing something made with Unreal by banning Epic's account? Can't I deploy an app to the App Store with my own?

falcolas 6y ago
They can't. This is another attempt by Epic at gaining public sympathy for intentionally breaking the terms of their licensing agreement with Apple to publish on the app store.
- n42 6y ago
  Between this PR nonsense and attempting to strong-arm it’s way into the market by introducing exclusives to PC, I have quite little sympathy for Epic. Apple’s “bad behavior” here ultimately aligns with my desires as a consumer. By controlling the marketplace, they enforce privacy and UX controls. They use that money to improve the products I use every day. I cannot say the same for Epic. Every battle they are starting is to degrade my experience as a consumer so they can make even more money.
- gpm 6y ago
  This is a legal argument to a court attempting to get an injunction. It seems to me to have very little to do with public sympathy. The public really doesn't give a crap about whether or not their is one contract or multiple, or the quality of apples legal arguments, which seems to be some of the core issues raised in this motion responding to Apple's motion.
  - falcolas 6y ago
    It may also be a legal argument, but it's very clearly a move to gain public sentiment to their side - it's being published broadly by the media, after all. Epic is painting themselves as the underdogs being bullied by Apple - the multi-billion dollar contract-breaking underdog.
    - Gwypaas 6y ago
      Facing the multi-trillion dollar gorilla, if this would even be a relevent perspective.
    - cycloptic 6y ago
      When was Epic ever given a chance to negotiate the terms of this contract?
      - falcolas 6y ago
        They were given the same chance as you and I are with Epic's TOS for their games/game store. They wanted access to the iOS market, and the terms were there.
        cycloptic 6y ago
        Which same chance is that? Please fill me in, I've never negotiated with Epic's game store.
        falcolas 6y ago
        Zero. It's take-it-or-leave-it. Standard contract negotiation "tactics" these days.
        cycloptic 6y ago
        That's unfortunate, maybe neither of them should be doing it?
        hellisothers 6y ago
        Is it though? If you create a set of rules for your sandbox and somebody comes along and wants to play in it but only if you change the rules and you say “no thanks”, that seems totally reasonable. Why should you have to negotiate?
dna_polymerase 6y ago
Apple could cut Epic's access to developer tools, which would make it impossible for Epic to support (patch and adding features) Unreal Engine on iOS and Mac. At least this is what the article states.
- falcolas 6y ago
  The engine is released with the game, not as a stand-alone binary. The dev tools are a different story, but unrelated to the question. And even if this did impact the engine, perhaps epic should have thought about that when playing chicken with Apple.
  - kenny11 6y ago
    If I were looking for an engine to build a game on I'd have to think twice about using Unreal Engine in the future. Having the company that builds such a foundational component of the product in open war with one of the most important platforms it runs on is an added complication that would only harm me. In this case, it seems the goals of Epic the game publisher versus Epic the component supplier really don't align, and Epic the publisher's needs are winning out.
    - gpm 6y ago
      Disagree, this lawsuit strongly supports Epic the component suppliers business as well, because one of those components they can supply and make significant money off of is payment processing. There is a bit of a conflict between Epic the component supplier and Joe the game developer's goals here, because Joe the game developer doesn't really care whether it's Apple or Epic taking the payment processing cut. Joe doesn't necessarily lose either because Joe seems some benefit (just less) too due to competition lowering the cost of payment processing. It's just not clear cut. In reality it probably the case that some game developers will win thanks to lower cost of payment processing dominating their cost benefit analysis, and others will lose thanks to worse unreal engine platform support dominating their cost benefit analysis.
    - birdyrooster 6y ago
an_opabinia 6y ago
Apple can prevent it just by saying so, and you'd have no recourse. Is there something inaccurate about this answer? This is what this saga is all about.

falcolas 6y ago

They can't. This is another attempt by Epic at gaining public sympathy for intentionally breaking the terms of their licensing agreement with Apple to publish on the app store.

n42 6y ago
Between this PR nonsense and attempting to strong-arm it’s way into the market by introducing exclusives to PC, I have quite little sympathy for Epic. Apple’s “bad behavior” here ultimately aligns with my desires as a consumer. By controlling the marketplace, they enforce privacy and UX controls. They use that money to improve the products I use every day. I cannot say the same for Epic. Every battle they are starting is to degrade my experience as a consumer so they can make even more money.
gpm 6y ago
This is a legal argument to a court attempting to get an injunction. It seems to me to have very little to do with public sympathy. The public really doesn't give a crap about whether or not their is one contract or multiple, or the quality of apples legal arguments, which seems to be some of the core issues raised in this motion responding to Apple's motion.
- falcolas 6y ago
  It may also be a legal argument, but it's very clearly a move to gain public sentiment to their side - it's being published broadly by the media, after all. Epic is painting themselves as the underdogs being bullied by Apple - the multi-billion dollar contract-breaking underdog.
  - Gwypaas 6y ago
    Facing the multi-trillion dollar gorilla, if this would even be a relevent perspective.
  - cycloptic 6y ago
    When was Epic ever given a chance to negotiate the terms of this contract?
    - falcolas 6y ago
      They were given the same chance as you and I are with Epic's TOS for their games/game store. They wanted access to the iOS market, and the terms were there.
      - cycloptic 6y ago
        Which same chance is that? Please fill me in, I've never negotiated with Epic's game store.
        falcolas 6y ago
        Zero. It's take-it-or-leave-it. Standard contract negotiation "tactics" these days.
        cycloptic 6y ago
        That's unfortunate, maybe neither of them should be doing it?
        hellisothers 6y ago
        Is it though? If you create a set of rules for your sandbox and somebody comes along and wants to play in it but only if you change the rules and you say “no thanks”, that seems totally reasonable. Why should you have to negotiate?

dna_polymerase 6y ago

Apple could cut Epic's access to developer tools, which would make it impossible for Epic to support (patch and adding features) Unreal Engine on iOS and Mac. At least this is what the article states.

falcolas 6y ago
The engine is released with the game, not as a stand-alone binary. The dev tools are a different story, but unrelated to the question. And even if this did impact the engine, perhaps epic should have thought about that when playing chicken with Apple.
- kenny11 6y ago
  If I were looking for an engine to build a game on I'd have to think twice about using Unreal Engine in the future. Having the company that builds such a foundational component of the product in open war with one of the most important platforms it runs on is an added complication that would only harm me. In this case, it seems the goals of Epic the game publisher versus Epic the component supplier really don't align, and Epic the publisher's needs are winning out.
  - gpm 6y ago
    Disagree, this lawsuit strongly supports Epic the component suppliers business as well, because one of those components they can supply and make significant money off of is payment processing. There is a bit of a conflict between Epic the component supplier and Joe the game developer's goals here, because Joe the game developer doesn't really care whether it's Apple or Epic taking the payment processing cut. Joe doesn't necessarily lose either because Joe seems some benefit (just less) too due to competition lowering the cost of payment processing. It's just not clear cut. In reality it probably the case that some game developers will win thanks to lower cost of payment processing dominating their cost benefit analysis, and others will lose thanks to worse unreal engine platform support dominating their cost benefit analysis.
  - birdyrooster 6y ago

an_opabinia 6y ago

Apple can prevent it just by saying so, and you'd have no recourse. Is there something inaccurate about this answer? This is what this saga is all about.