4 ms·

> powerful animal tranquilizer on a human being just to make some cops' job "easier" You’re waxing hyperbolic. It’s a sedative drug used in normal human clinic

> powerful animal tranquilizer on a human being just to make some cops' job "easier" You’re waxing hyperbolic. It’s a sedative drug used in normal human clinical practice, and in many settings is preferable because it has -fewer- risks of complications than other sedatives. And while I’m highly critical of it’s being used without strict medical protocol, I’ve worked psych ED enough to understand that there are occasionally absolutely, 100% ridiculously “agitated” patients that are going to have to be brought in, and will not do so without large amounts of physical force - something that is also prone to unfortunate complications.

tmp538394722 6y ago
Elijah McClain was not “ridiculously agitated”. The video shows that police escalated every chance they got. After receiving a phone call of a “suspicious person” they went from in their car to hands on Elijah in less than 10s. In a matter of minutes Elijah was on the ground surrounded by a dozen officers. They’re saying “was he suspected of anything”, “why are we here”? They don’t even know why they’re there... but they know that they need to indiscriminately dominate a young black man until he’s puking and crying and ultimately has a heart attack. Ridiculously agitated, my foot. They (Police) create the situation, then they (Police) prescribe ketamine. These are not the people who should be making these calls. No one should be allowed to have this kind of latitude when dealing with another human.
- FpUser 6y ago
  They're plain fucking murderers and should rot in jail. That is all about it. It is just too bad that the land of free telling every other country how to behave does not seem to give a flying fuck about the egregious behavior of their own agents. Well not unless the case gets much publicity on FB and the likes.
- newacct583 6y ago
  > They don’t even know why they’re there... but they know that they need to indiscriminately dominate a young black man until he’s puking and crying and ultimately has a heart attack. And this, for the benefit of folks here who still want to treat these incidents as individual aberrations, is what BLM is about. Sure, police can be good or bad, sometimes make mistakes, etc... But POLICING, as it is practiced in this country, is a horrifying disaster. And at this point it seems almost completely beyond rescue. We need new cops, new practices, new laws, new equipment, new training. I don't see how you "reform" a culture like that.
  - hnlurker 6y ago
    This, oh and green new deal, oh and palestine, oh and destroy nuke family, oh and..... please.
  - gwright 6y ago
    > I don't see how you "reform" a culture like that. You do it through hard work on real reform at the local level, something that BLM (the organization) isn't really interested in. I don't agree with everything but the ideas outlined here https://www.joincampaignzero.org https://www.joincampaignzero.org are a good start. Some communities are in much worse situation than others and I think new leadership is urgently needed in many of these places (i.e., vote for change). The rhetoric that you are using is supremely dangerous. Look what is going on in Portland as the police and local political leadership have withdrawn from the basic goal of public safety and ensuring a peaceful, civil community. It is devolving into warring tribes. It is actually astonishing to me that it hasn't escalated further than it has but I see that this weekend things have changed a bit as some new tribes arrived resulting in brawls/skirmishes/fighting between the tribes as opposed to with police. To advocate or even suggest that policing, as a system, is irredeemably flawed and can't be reformed is to actively invite in chaos and civil unrest. Instead of a civil police force you will end up with an ad-hoc collection of private security, thugs, violent gangs, protection rackets, and so on. Due process will not exist and whatever problems you attribute to the current system will be much, much worse in this new "system".
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - glitcher 6y ago
      > You do it through hard work on real reform at the local level, something that BLM (the organization) isn't really interested in. But aren't you making the same type of over-generalization as the comment you are replying to? I think there are many within the BLM movement who are working towards thoughtful change at the local level within their respective communities. But just like any large organization, the most extreme viewpoints tend to get the most attention, and those within the organization with the loudest voices tend to be the ones who push for the more extreme agendas. I think it's important to keep in mind that any large organization is made up of individual people who each have their own opinions, motivations and goals, and often times those may be in conflict with the broader messaging of the group. Your last paragraph really lost me though. I get it that you are addressing the most extreme version of the original post, but for me personally that didn't seem very constructive and I didn't find the appeals to fear mongering very convincing either.
- ddingus 6y ago
  The reason they do that is the policing doctrine changed. Escalation of force to compliance. They are literally trained to do that.

tmp538394722 6y ago

Elijah McClain was not “ridiculously agitated”. The video shows that police escalated every chance they got. After receiving a phone call of a “suspicious person” they went from in their car to hands on Elijah in less than 10s. In a matter of minutes Elijah was on the ground surrounded by a dozen officers. They’re saying “was he suspected of anything”, “why are we here”? They don’t even know why they’re there... but they know that they need to indiscriminately dominate a young black man until he’s puking and crying and ultimately has a heart attack. Ridiculously agitated, my foot. They (Police) create the situation, then they (Police) prescribe ketamine. These are not the people who should be making these calls. No one should be allowed to have this kind of latitude when dealing with another human.

FpUser 6y ago
They're plain fucking murderers and should rot in jail. That is all about it. It is just too bad that the land of free telling every other country how to behave does not seem to give a flying fuck about the egregious behavior of their own agents. Well not unless the case gets much publicity on FB and the likes.
newacct583 6y ago
> They don’t even know why they’re there... but they know that they need to indiscriminately dominate a young black man until he’s puking and crying and ultimately has a heart attack. And this, for the benefit of folks here who still want to treat these incidents as individual aberrations, is what BLM is about. Sure, police can be good or bad, sometimes make mistakes, etc... But POLICING, as it is practiced in this country, is a horrifying disaster. And at this point it seems almost completely beyond rescue. We need new cops, new practices, new laws, new equipment, new training. I don't see how you "reform" a culture like that.
- hnlurker 6y ago
  This, oh and green new deal, oh and palestine, oh and destroy nuke family, oh and..... please.
- gwright 6y ago
  > I don't see how you "reform" a culture like that. You do it through hard work on real reform at the local level, something that BLM (the organization) isn't really interested in. I don't agree with everything but the ideas outlined here https://www.joincampaignzero.org https://www.joincampaignzero.org are a good start. Some communities are in much worse situation than others and I think new leadership is urgently needed in many of these places (i.e., vote for change). The rhetoric that you are using is supremely dangerous. Look what is going on in Portland as the police and local political leadership have withdrawn from the basic goal of public safety and ensuring a peaceful, civil community. It is devolving into warring tribes. It is actually astonishing to me that it hasn't escalated further than it has but I see that this weekend things have changed a bit as some new tribes arrived resulting in brawls/skirmishes/fighting between the tribes as opposed to with police. To advocate or even suggest that policing, as a system, is irredeemably flawed and can't be reformed is to actively invite in chaos and civil unrest. Instead of a civil police force you will end up with an ad-hoc collection of private security, thugs, violent gangs, protection rackets, and so on. Due process will not exist and whatever problems you attribute to the current system will be much, much worse in this new "system".
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - glitcher 6y ago
    > You do it through hard work on real reform at the local level, something that BLM (the organization) isn't really interested in. But aren't you making the same type of over-generalization as the comment you are replying to? I think there are many within the BLM movement who are working towards thoughtful change at the local level within their respective communities. But just like any large organization, the most extreme viewpoints tend to get the most attention, and those within the organization with the loudest voices tend to be the ones who push for the more extreme agendas. I think it's important to keep in mind that any large organization is made up of individual people who each have their own opinions, motivations and goals, and often times those may be in conflict with the broader messaging of the group. Your last paragraph really lost me though. I get it that you are addressing the most extreme version of the original post, but for me personally that didn't seem very constructive and I didn't find the appeals to fear mongering very convincing either.
ddingus 6y ago
The reason they do that is the policing doctrine changed. Escalation of force to compliance. They are literally trained to do that.