5 ms·

Gnome desktop instead of Unity in Ubuntu 11.04?

29 points by kia 16y ago

wmf 16y ago
Discussion: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/002894.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/...
buster 16y ago
I don't care for the default as long as the dropdown on the login screen leaves me the choice to have my "real" Gnome desktop. Else, this release would be a nightmare, i guess..
- coryfoo 16y ago
  I agree. And from what I have read/seen as far as Unity goes is that it is not ready for prime time just yet. On the other hand, Gnome 3 looks pretty awesome. Just saying.
  - pge 16y ago
    Gnome 3 is great...if you have compatible graphics processing. Ubuntu (and Gnome for that matter) are facing an interesting challenge there. Do you try to take Windows head on and assume your target customer is running new hardware? or do you try to keep the installed base of Linux users happy? Many of those are using Linux on older hardware precisely because it's still pretty snappy on those machines, while Windows is too bloated. It seems hard to have it both ways.
    - bad_user 16y ago
      You got it backwards -- newer hardware is the problem ;)
      - rbanffy 16y ago
        Gnome shell mandates compositing.
        owaislone 16y ago
        Unity doesn't because it has a fallback shell that mimics actual unity 100%.
  - jwalanta 16y ago
    Awesome yes, but Gnome3 also doesn't seem stable enough yet.
    - carlrice 16y ago
      Fedora 15 with the latest updates and official NVIDIA drivers, its been my main environment for the last week with very little problem (especially considering FC15 is still Alpha). My main gripe is the lack of preferences in the GUI, but a little google + cl fixes that.
- owaislone 16y ago
  I think that is that they are talking about. To have or Not to have a classic-desktop option by default.
MatthewPhillips 16y ago
This was expected, Unity isn't ready yet.
- kleiba 16y ago
  But GNOME3 is?
  - thingie 16y ago
    I have been able to use F15 alpha for a week or so, and I actually quite like it. Majority of problems that I've met so far was caused by systemd or some other novelty, not Gnome 3.
  - MatthewPhillips 16y ago
    I didn't mean the subjective "ready", I meant not ready as in not shipping, which Gnome 3.0 is.
acabal 16y ago
Actually I'd be surprised if they did a last-minute switch back to Gnome Classic for 11.04 given Shuttleworth's penchant for decision by fiat and history of using non-LTS releases as nothing more than extended betas/UI playgrounds. (See Pulseaudio, Empathy over Pidgin, Indicators, window buttons--and that one was actually for an LTS!) No, Shuttleworth has decided that Unity is the new hotness, so we'll almost certainly be getting it in 11.04, which will make us all glorified beta testers again. This'll be the first release since I started using Ubuntu that I won't be upgrading to immediately. My business productivity--which is what I use Ubuntu for--is more important than that.
- ominous_prime 16y ago
  If you like to keep up with the latest version, I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade because of unity. I have one laptop running the 11-04beta, and it's business as usual as long as I login with the classic desktop.
- cmsj 16y ago
  Logical conclusion of what you say is that this is exactly the right time to make changes, otherwise they would be too dangerous for LTS releases! Unity going into 11.04 means that by the 12.04 LTS it's had a whole year of real-world use on thousands/millions of desktops and all of the bug fixing that will result from that. Yay!
  - acabal 16y ago
    What I'm saying is that "non-LTS" shouldn't be code for "bug-ridden and feature-incomplete," just because it isn't supported for as long. They deserve the same attention to stability that LTS releases get. I'm not against all change, only change that is foisted upon me with more concern given to haste and deadlines than to polish and stability. If Unity is as buggy and feature-incomplete as they say, I would much rather wait another 6 months for it to mature in development than have it released early and having to deal with 6 months of crashes and missing features while I wait. Unfortunately that seems to be the direction Ubuntu has been leaning in for the past few releases. It's too bad that the PPA system, for all its benefits, almost forces one to do distro upgrades--it's a choice between having new versions of critical software like Firefox and accepting immature stuff like Unity, or using out-of-date software for another 6 months. Can you imagine being stuck with FF3.6 till October if you choose not to upgrade to 11.04? (And yes you could add a PPA, but they're often hard to find, and many popular programs don't have PPAs for out-of-release updates.) But that's more of a complaint about the milestone-release system than it is a complaint about Unity. Though I am glad they're providing the option for Classic, at least in 11.04. Too bad most people who don't like Unity and don't read Linux forums won't figure out how to enable it!
jjcm 16y ago
I wouldn't be surprised. When I tried Unity a few months ago it was riddled with bugs and memory leaks. It felt much like KDE4 did when it first came out - an incomplete product that focused on quantity of features over quality. It could be a great desktop environment, but it's going to need a lot of work before it gets there. With 11.04 coming in the next few weeks, I just don't see it having that polish on time.
- shawnee_ 16y ago
  The only reason I can find to prefer one desktop over another is ease of using / assigning custom keyboard shortcuts: http://oss.zentu.net/?q=node/27 http://oss.zentu.net/?q=node/27 KDE4 was a huge leap backward in that respect. 3.5 was about perfect, and I actually preferred it over Gnome when 3.5 was the default. But more often than not must we learn the hard way that sometimes it's just best to leave well enough alone.
  - owaislone 16y ago
    Exactly.
- chrismsnz 16y ago
  Me too. However, I tried the updated version as part of the latest Ubuntu beta and I have to say... it has come a long way. It's not perfect, but it is leaps and bounds ahead of their "preview" version. In fact, the version you were using probably was still using Mutter as a drawing backend - they've since switched to the more stable and tested Compiz.
ryanklee 16y ago
Relevant thread at Ubuntu Forums seems to call bullshit on this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1724085 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1724085 Contains a link to related https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/002894.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/...
- viraptor 16y ago
  People on forums can call many things... but it's still the Canonical staff that makes the decisions (Tech board in this case).
  - ryanklee 16y ago
    I'm referring you specifically to the second link I posted which is not from the forums but from the mailing list from which all this speculation arose. The forums don't mean anything, it's just where I originally found the pertinent link.
pepijndevos 16y ago
Some people mentioned Gnome 3 in here, but by Gnome classic, I think the mean Gnome 2, as opposed to Gnome Shell, which is Gnome 3. Did anyone else noticed that Gnome Shell has a lot of Unity stuff? Possible Wayland backend and a launcher interface.
- owaislone 16y ago
  Yes, Shell added and redesigned itself a lot after Unity surface but hey, that's good.
owaislone 16y ago
Guys, they are talking about having a classic-desktop OPTION by default. Otherwise people will have to install gnome2-desktop to get it. Unity will be the default.
hasenj 16y ago
Actually, classical gnome won't even be installed by default at all: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/ubuntu-11-10-will-not-ship-with-classic-gnome-desktop/ http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/ubuntu-11-10-will-not-shi... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/739812/comments/5 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/739812/... We made very good progress on a11y in Natty, but will miss the goal of perfect a11y. We'll nail it in Oneiric. That's OK, because we have the Classic desktop fallback in Natty, but will not in Oneiric. Mark
- cmsj 16y ago
  Natty = 11.04 Oneiric = 11.10 So 11.04 will have the classic by default :) Either way, it's just an apt-get away :)
  - fungi 16y ago
    > it's just an apt-get away im amazed at how much internet drama ignores this point...
BasicObject 16y ago
I'm still on 10.04 x86-64. I'm very happy with it. If it isn't dead simple to switch to Gnome Classic in 10.04 I will be switching to Debian. I use my desktop computer for work not play. If I want to just waste time on the web I use my CR-48.

29 points by kia 16y ago

wmf 16y ago

Discussion: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/002894.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/...

buster 16y ago

I don't care for the default as long as the dropdown on the login screen leaves me the choice to have my "real" Gnome desktop. Else, this release would be a nightmare, i guess..

coryfoo 16y ago
I agree. And from what I have read/seen as far as Unity goes is that it is not ready for prime time just yet. On the other hand, Gnome 3 looks pretty awesome. Just saying.
- pge 16y ago
  Gnome 3 is great...if you have compatible graphics processing. Ubuntu (and Gnome for that matter) are facing an interesting challenge there. Do you try to take Windows head on and assume your target customer is running new hardware? or do you try to keep the installed base of Linux users happy? Many of those are using Linux on older hardware precisely because it's still pretty snappy on those machines, while Windows is too bloated. It seems hard to have it both ways.
  - bad_user 16y ago
    You got it backwards -- newer hardware is the problem ;)
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      Gnome shell mandates compositing.
      - owaislone 16y ago
        Unity doesn't because it has a fallback shell that mimics actual unity 100%.
- jwalanta 16y ago
  Awesome yes, but Gnome3 also doesn't seem stable enough yet.
  - carlrice 16y ago
    Fedora 15 with the latest updates and official NVIDIA drivers, its been my main environment for the last week with very little problem (especially considering FC15 is still Alpha). My main gripe is the lack of preferences in the GUI, but a little google + cl fixes that.
owaislone 16y ago
I think that is that they are talking about. To have or Not to have a classic-desktop option by default.

MatthewPhillips 16y ago

This was expected, Unity isn't ready yet.

kleiba 16y ago
But GNOME3 is?
- thingie 16y ago
  I have been able to use F15 alpha for a week or so, and I actually quite like it. Majority of problems that I've met so far was caused by systemd or some other novelty, not Gnome 3.
- MatthewPhillips 16y ago
  I didn't mean the subjective "ready", I meant not ready as in not shipping, which Gnome 3.0 is.

acabal 16y ago

Actually I'd be surprised if they did a last-minute switch back to Gnome Classic for 11.04 given Shuttleworth's penchant for decision by fiat and history of using non-LTS releases as nothing more than extended betas/UI playgrounds. (See Pulseaudio, Empathy over Pidgin, Indicators, window buttons--and that one was actually for an LTS!) No, Shuttleworth has decided that Unity is the new hotness, so we'll almost certainly be getting it in 11.04, which will make us all glorified beta testers again. This'll be the first release since I started using Ubuntu that I won't be upgrading to immediately. My business productivity--which is what I use Ubuntu for--is more important than that.

ominous_prime 16y ago
If you like to keep up with the latest version, I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade because of unity. I have one laptop running the 11-04beta, and it's business as usual as long as I login with the classic desktop.
cmsj 16y ago
Logical conclusion of what you say is that this is exactly the right time to make changes, otherwise they would be too dangerous for LTS releases! Unity going into 11.04 means that by the 12.04 LTS it's had a whole year of real-world use on thousands/millions of desktops and all of the bug fixing that will result from that. Yay!
- acabal 16y ago
  What I'm saying is that "non-LTS" shouldn't be code for "bug-ridden and feature-incomplete," just because it isn't supported for as long. They deserve the same attention to stability that LTS releases get. I'm not against all change, only change that is foisted upon me with more concern given to haste and deadlines than to polish and stability. If Unity is as buggy and feature-incomplete as they say, I would much rather wait another 6 months for it to mature in development than have it released early and having to deal with 6 months of crashes and missing features while I wait. Unfortunately that seems to be the direction Ubuntu has been leaning in for the past few releases. It's too bad that the PPA system, for all its benefits, almost forces one to do distro upgrades--it's a choice between having new versions of critical software like Firefox and accepting immature stuff like Unity, or using out-of-date software for another 6 months. Can you imagine being stuck with FF3.6 till October if you choose not to upgrade to 11.04? (And yes you could add a PPA, but they're often hard to find, and many popular programs don't have PPAs for out-of-release updates.) But that's more of a complaint about the milestone-release system than it is a complaint about Unity. Though I am glad they're providing the option for Classic, at least in 11.04. Too bad most people who don't like Unity and don't read Linux forums won't figure out how to enable it!

jjcm 16y ago

I wouldn't be surprised. When I tried Unity a few months ago it was riddled with bugs and memory leaks. It felt much like KDE4 did when it first came out - an incomplete product that focused on quantity of features over quality. It could be a great desktop environment, but it's going to need a lot of work before it gets there. With 11.04 coming in the next few weeks, I just don't see it having that polish on time.

shawnee_ 16y ago
The only reason I can find to prefer one desktop over another is ease of using / assigning custom keyboard shortcuts: http://oss.zentu.net/?q=node/27 http://oss.zentu.net/?q=node/27 KDE4 was a huge leap backward in that respect. 3.5 was about perfect, and I actually preferred it over Gnome when 3.5 was the default. But more often than not must we learn the hard way that sometimes it's just best to leave well enough alone.
- owaislone 16y ago
  Exactly.
chrismsnz 16y ago
Me too. However, I tried the updated version as part of the latest Ubuntu beta and I have to say... it has come a long way. It's not perfect, but it is leaps and bounds ahead of their "preview" version. In fact, the version you were using probably was still using Mutter as a drawing backend - they've since switched to the more stable and tested Compiz.

ryanklee 16y ago

Relevant thread at Ubuntu Forums seems to call bullshit on this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1724085 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1724085 Contains a link to related https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/002894.html https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2011-April/...

viraptor 16y ago
People on forums can call many things... but it's still the Canonical staff that makes the decisions (Tech board in this case).
- ryanklee 16y ago
  I'm referring you specifically to the second link I posted which is not from the forums but from the mailing list from which all this speculation arose. The forums don't mean anything, it's just where I originally found the pertinent link.

pepijndevos 16y ago

Some people mentioned Gnome 3 in here, but by Gnome classic, I think the mean Gnome 2, as opposed to Gnome Shell, which is Gnome 3. Did anyone else noticed that Gnome Shell has a lot of Unity stuff? Possible Wayland backend and a launcher interface.

owaislone 16y ago
Yes, Shell added and redesigned itself a lot after Unity surface but hey, that's good.

owaislone 16y ago

Guys, they are talking about having a classic-desktop OPTION by default. Otherwise people will have to install gnome2-desktop to get it. Unity will be the default.

hasenj 16y ago

Actually, classical gnome won't even be installed by default at all: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/ubuntu-11-10-will-not-ship-with-classic-gnome-desktop/ http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/04/ubuntu-11-10-will-not-shi... https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/739812/comments/5 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/739812/... We made very good progress on a11y in Natty, but will miss the goal of perfect a11y. We'll nail it in Oneiric. That's OK, because we have the Classic desktop fallback in Natty, but will not in Oneiric. Mark

cmsj 16y ago
Natty = 11.04 Oneiric = 11.10 So 11.04 will have the classic by default :) Either way, it's just an apt-get away :)
- fungi 16y ago
  > it's just an apt-get away im amazed at how much internet drama ignores this point...

BasicObject 16y ago

I'm still on 10.04 x86-64. I'm very happy with it. If it isn't dead simple to switch to Gnome Classic in 10.04 I will be switching to Debian. I use my desktop computer for work not play. If I want to just waste time on the web I use my CR-48.