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I agree that all restraint methods are upsetting, but "inject with dissociative drugs" should really be a lot further down the list than "hit with stick". Pers

I agree that all restraint methods are upsetting, but "inject with dissociative drugs" should really be a lot further down the list than "hit with stick". Personally, I favor hitting people with billy clubs, because it leaves evidence of what happened and it requires the police to actually take physical action against another human. Giving cops needles full of magic compliance juice seems less responsible to me. The reason people were upset about Rodney King was because it was brutal and easy to understand. Injecting ketamine is also brutal but it's less visible. I cannot imagine anyone ever getting over the fact that they were restrained by authorities and injected into a k-hole. They won't be visibly harmed in any way, but that will absolutely mess someone up for life.

mr_spothawk 6y ago
> Personally, I favor hitting people with billy clubs, because it leaves evidence of what happened You make a decent argument.
collyw 6y ago
If I was being restrained, I would far rather be given a hit of ketamine than a hit of a bat. (From people that seem to know a bit about restraint techniques Joe Rogan and Jocko Willink discussed the use of choke holds on Joe's podacst. They both agreed that it was far better than a smack with a baton. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=iUhdc1GAddk&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=iUhdc1GAddk&...).
- wonderwonder 6y ago
  I guess the argument against this is how many people in the US have died from being struck by a police club vs from a police chokehold. I cant recall a single instance of death by police bat.
caskethopper 6y ago
From the article, it sounds like it is on a completely different list altogether. "Most states and agencies say ketamine may be administered when someone exhibits “excited delirium” or agitation, which is typically associated with chronic drug abuse, mental illness or both." In that scenario, the police would be beating the culprit into compliance and we would all be looking at videos on youtube shaking our heads. I'm not saying cops should be carrying hypodermics in their utility belt, but how many non-lethal options do you remove before you have to accept more lethal outcomes?
- NotSammyHagar 6y ago
  This is yet another scenario where the US can't seem to avoid violent actions when arresting people and other countries don't seem to have this problem. So what's going on here? I can only see it as another case where violent actions are significantly increased by police behavior.
  - Igelau 6y ago
    > other countries don't seem to have this problem It would help to be more specific about which other countries and when. There are a lot of reasons why things happen in one place and not another.
JohnBooty 6y ago
Personally, I favor hitting people with billy clubs, because it leaves evidence of what happened and it requires the police to actually take physical action against another human Like you say, there's not really a "good" choice, and I am not defending officers' actions during incidents like the killing (murder, IMO) of Elijah McCain. But those police batons break bones. Also, there's evidence of ketamine sedation: they need to summon paramedics to perform the injection, etc. So, I don't know. I'm sure we at least agree that the answer is to avoid letting things escalate to that point so frequently.

mr_spothawk 6y ago

> Personally, I favor hitting people with billy clubs, because it leaves evidence of what happened You make a decent argument.

collyw 6y ago

If I was being restrained, I would far rather be given a hit of ketamine than a hit of a bat. (From people that seem to know a bit about restraint techniques Joe Rogan and Jocko Willink discussed the use of choke holds on Joe's podacst. They both agreed that it was far better than a smack with a baton. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=iUhdc1GAddk&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=iUhdc1GAddk&...).

wonderwonder 6y ago
I guess the argument against this is how many people in the US have died from being struck by a police club vs from a police chokehold. I cant recall a single instance of death by police bat.

caskethopper 6y ago

From the article, it sounds like it is on a completely different list altogether. "Most states and agencies say ketamine may be administered when someone exhibits “excited delirium” or agitation, which is typically associated with chronic drug abuse, mental illness or both." In that scenario, the police would be beating the culprit into compliance and we would all be looking at videos on youtube shaking our heads. I'm not saying cops should be carrying hypodermics in their utility belt, but how many non-lethal options do you remove before you have to accept more lethal outcomes?

NotSammyHagar 6y ago
This is yet another scenario where the US can't seem to avoid violent actions when arresting people and other countries don't seem to have this problem. So what's going on here? I can only see it as another case where violent actions are significantly increased by police behavior.
- Igelau 6y ago
  > other countries don't seem to have this problem It would help to be more specific about which other countries and when. There are a lot of reasons why things happen in one place and not another.

JohnBooty 6y ago

Personally, I favor hitting people with billy clubs, because it leaves evidence of what happened and it requires the police to actually take physical action against another human Like you say, there's not really a "good" choice, and I am not defending officers' actions during incidents like the killing (murder, IMO) of Elijah McCain. But those police batons break bones. Also, there's evidence of ketamine sedation: they need to summon paramedics to perform the injection, etc. So, I don't know. I'm sure we at least agree that the answer is to avoid letting things escalate to that point so frequently.