8 ms·

It's not a life-saving drug, it's literally never needed. Guy was 140 lbs. There's not a 140 lb man I couldn't subdue myself, probably. And I'm just an out o

by axaxs 6y ago

It's not a life-saving drug, it's literally never needed. Guy was 140 lbs. There's not a 140 lb man I couldn't subdue myself, probably. And I'm just an out of shape programmer. Why do six cops feel they can't do the same?

sneak 6y ago
They did subdue him: they put him in a chokehold, with enough pressure to stop his heart.
FireBeyond 6y ago
Because when the feedback loops on his 140lb musculature are blocked and he will keep going to the point of permanent damage... and when his ability to feel pain is decreased... and there's a very real concern for hyperthermia, rhabdomyolysis with an extended struggle, dysrhythmia, then maybe ketamine becomes the better option. That being said, ketamine should be an EMS decision to minimize risk to patient and others, not "at LE direction".
- axaxs 6y ago
  So cops are doctors now? Or EMS even? Neither have any real medical training, at all. No offense meant, EMS grind for little money, but they're not medical doctors. Narcan I was already uneasy about, but it saved real lives in obvious situations. This is absolute lunacy.
  - tomcam 6y ago
    Do you have any idea how many medical procedures cops are trained on? It’s a lot. They aren’t doctors but they are required to assist medically and stabilize until EMT arrives.
    - axaxs 6y ago
      Specifically no, but I do know they are trained. That said, training is just that. If you see X, do Y. And sure, net, it's a positive thing. But again, they aren't medical doctors. It's not always IF THEN. Oftentimes it's IF AND NOT THEN. Either way, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole of arguing life saving procedures. My entire point is that we should not be injecting people with non emergency drugs like Ketamine.
      - jbnorth 6y ago
        Actually, we should be giving patients. Ketamine is an extremely safe drug for paramedics to give for the safety of the patient and those around them. Especially in cases of excited delerium where the person may actually die because of it. In these cases ketamine is absolutely an emergency drug.
      - FireBeyond 6y ago
        > My entire point is that we should not be injecting people with non emergency drugs like Ketamine. Instead your argument seems to be that we should be subjecting people to significant risk from rhabdo, hyperthermia, which to be clear can be entirely significant.
    - scarface74 6y ago
      It’s not about the training of police, it’s about the track record of police misconduct and coverups. Any additional tool in the tool belt of police to commit aggression is worrisome.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- jdietrich 6y ago
  Excited delirium is a really, really sketchy diagnosis. There's certainly no good clinical evidence to suggest that ketamine is an effective treatment.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jcims 6y ago
You have no idea what you’re talking about. There are 140lb men and women that could calmly choke you to death. Somewhere in that alltercation you will progress from trying to subdue them to fighting for your life, at which point you will throw all rules out the window and willfully violate any and all lawful progression in the use of force continuum. Hopefully your demise will be captured on video to use in training material for future generations of law-enforcement, as has been the case for many before you.
- jessaustin 6y ago
  You're also making assumptions here. Lots of out-of-shape programmers have been in fights. Lots of out-of-shape programmers weigh more than twice what this victim weighed, and still move well. Also, get out of here with that "women" bullshit: that proves all your implied expertise comes from watching TV. The attitude here is typical of bootlickers, however. Never mind that there were a dozen cops present. Never mind that they were not responding to an actual crime. Never mind that very few people in the general public are highly-trained choke-out ninjas. Some cops might get scared, so let's burn the world down. Pathetic.
  - jcims 6y ago
    You were so excited to haul out 'bootlicker' that you didn't really even try to think about what I was replying to. Maybe next time.
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      It's a perfectly cromulent word. If you'd like to try writing that comment again, this time with less psychological projection and no distracting nonsense about deadly pre-teen ninja girls, we'll all read it again and revise our opinions about the licking of boots. "Maybe next time" it won't be downvoted to oblivion...

by axaxs 6y ago

sneak 6y ago

They did subdue him: they put him in a chokehold, with enough pressure to stop his heart.

FireBeyond 6y ago

Because when the feedback loops on his 140lb musculature are blocked and he will keep going to the point of permanent damage... and when his ability to feel pain is decreased... and there's a very real concern for hyperthermia, rhabdomyolysis with an extended struggle, dysrhythmia, then maybe ketamine becomes the better option. That being said, ketamine should be an EMS decision to minimize risk to patient and others, not "at LE direction".

axaxs 6y ago
So cops are doctors now? Or EMS even? Neither have any real medical training, at all. No offense meant, EMS grind for little money, but they're not medical doctors. Narcan I was already uneasy about, but it saved real lives in obvious situations. This is absolute lunacy.
- tomcam 6y ago
  Do you have any idea how many medical procedures cops are trained on? It’s a lot. They aren’t doctors but they are required to assist medically and stabilize until EMT arrives.
  - axaxs 6y ago
    Specifically no, but I do know they are trained. That said, training is just that. If you see X, do Y. And sure, net, it's a positive thing. But again, they aren't medical doctors. It's not always IF THEN. Oftentimes it's IF AND NOT THEN. Either way, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole of arguing life saving procedures. My entire point is that we should not be injecting people with non emergency drugs like Ketamine.
    - jbnorth 6y ago
      Actually, we should be giving patients. Ketamine is an extremely safe drug for paramedics to give for the safety of the patient and those around them. Especially in cases of excited delerium where the person may actually die because of it. In these cases ketamine is absolutely an emergency drug.
    - FireBeyond 6y ago
      > My entire point is that we should not be injecting people with non emergency drugs like Ketamine. Instead your argument seems to be that we should be subjecting people to significant risk from rhabdo, hyperthermia, which to be clear can be entirely significant.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    It’s not about the training of police, it’s about the track record of police misconduct and coverups. Any additional tool in the tool belt of police to commit aggression is worrisome.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jdietrich 6y ago
Excited delirium is a really, really sketchy diagnosis. There's certainly no good clinical evidence to suggest that ketamine is an effective treatment.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

jcims 6y ago

You have no idea what you’re talking about. There are 140lb men and women that could calmly choke you to death. Somewhere in that alltercation you will progress from trying to subdue them to fighting for your life, at which point you will throw all rules out the window and willfully violate any and all lawful progression in the use of force continuum. Hopefully your demise will be captured on video to use in training material for future generations of law-enforcement, as has been the case for many before you.

jessaustin 6y ago
You're also making assumptions here. Lots of out-of-shape programmers have been in fights. Lots of out-of-shape programmers weigh more than twice what this victim weighed, and still move well. Also, get out of here with that "women" bullshit: that proves all your implied expertise comes from watching TV. The attitude here is typical of bootlickers, however. Never mind that there were a dozen cops present. Never mind that they were not responding to an actual crime. Never mind that very few people in the general public are highly-trained choke-out ninjas. Some cops might get scared, so let's burn the world down. Pathetic.
- jcims 6y ago
  You were so excited to haul out 'bootlicker' that you didn't really even try to think about what I was replying to. Maybe next time.
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    It's a perfectly cromulent word. If you'd like to try writing that comment again, this time with less psychological projection and no distracting nonsense about deadly pre-teen ninja girls, we'll all read it again and revise our opinions about the licking of boots. "Maybe next time" it won't be downvoted to oblivion...