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As a black person I'm going to swallow my disgust at the fact I had to read that this drivel evening and point their own study is clearly stating the opposite p

by btilly 6y ago

As a black person I'm going to swallow my disgust at the fact I had to read that this drivel evening and point their own study is clearly stating the opposite point they made, that IQ tests are not measuring some sort of inherent intelligence difference in races You attribute a position to me that I did not make, and do not hold. You then criticize a straw man of your own invention. My position is that IQ scores reflect actual intelligence. However the environment that you grow up in is one of the biggest drivers of how intelligent you will become. Therefore population differences in intelligence are mostly attributable to differences in environment, not genetics. That said, the position I hold that you don't like is that there are population differences and those population differences have a significant impact on real lives. I don't like that either. However that is what the data says, and I'm strongly in favor of accepting unpleasant realities rather than sweeping them under the carpet. You will note that the article that I linked to supports all of my actual positions.

BoorishBears 6y ago
Let's pretend for a second, that you just don't know how to write a simple thought in a coherent way, accidentally tried to say "the stereotype blacks are stupid is true", and aren't instead just backpedaling from your original shitty comment after being called out... You say it's a difference in environment, so why use that difference to defend a statement like "blacks are stupid"?! Why try to make a try and enforce a racist statement like "blacks are stupid", that's actually _less valid_ and _much more easily disproven_ than the hypothesis you claim you're _actually_ backing, that environmental differences lead to differences in intelligence? After all, while it's trivial to find studies questioning the reliability and validity (not just statistical validity) of IQ tests... it's _more_ trivial to find studies showing the effect of different cultures on IQ tests ability to even measure intelligence: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Culture-Fair-Cognitive-Ability-Assessment-Verney-Granholm/13925ddec275c8dbf1008b38ef76a5dc09dd9558 https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Culture-Fair-Cognitive... _The study you link is making connections to race with specific goals in mind that have nothing to do with trying to defend a stereotype as heinous as "blacks are stupid". In fact their point is literally the opposite, that what appears to be a simple gap in races, is actually a reflection of environmental differences._ It's clear to me that your own underlying bias caused you to try and draw a conclusion that literally does not exist, and you internally try to write off every single attempt to call out your own stupidity as pearl clutching. It's literally the opposite of defending a statement like "blacks are stupid" No testing gap being closed is continent on people "not sweeping under the rug the fact that blacks are stupid!" Now, let me be a little personal here, you are the worst kind of person and part of a growing plague. This new wave of people overestimating their intelligence and understanding, and undervaluing basic human decency because "it flies in the idea of logic!" and "you're only mad I said something heinous because of <insert overused logical fallacy>!!!!". There are a lot of truly awful things that you can justify if your only criteria is "I can misconstrue a study to make a shitty defense of it!" Do your friends at "Lean St" know that you spend your time defending statements like "blacks are stupid"? Maybe you should tell them?
- btilly 6y ago
  I've read your rant multiple times. You haven't exactly demonstrated good reading comprehension. Nor do I believe your personal attacks are justified. If you wish to argue that blacks do not score over a standard deviation lower on IQ tests, you're arguing against a mountain of evidence. If you wish to argue that this difference doesn't have pretty serious real-world consequences, you're arguing against another mountain of evidence. You can choose to argue that IQ is culturally biased. I have to admit that culture affects people's IQ. But in turn IQ measures mental abilities that will help you do well in a technologically based society. So if particular cultural ideas help kids grow up with better IQs, those ideas are worth adopting. If specific family interventions have a positive impact, they are worth considering as well. And if you refuse to do that for kids, you bear a share of the responsibility for their future failures. Seriously. IQ is a better predictor of your future success than your socioeconomic background. It is a better predictor than the color of your skin. The good side of that is that people are being judged more on their abilities than their background and race. That's good. But the bad side is that every year in which we see a large gap in SAT scores between blacks and whites, we are looking a future economic gap that will last decades. As a society, we refuse to even think about that. Which means that we choose to continue the problem.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    Read it again then, your entire comment is already answered to above. You can keep trying to switch direction like a weasel, but I could cut and paste the comment you replied to and it'd still be accurate because you didn't answer a single point brought up. Let's narrow the foxhole though, see if you can answer yes or no to a few simple questions: > The answer to the implicit question is simple and obvious. The stereotypes that proved accurate were often ones which people, for political reasons, wished to be inaccurate. > A simple example will demonstrate this. There is a stereotype that blacks are stupid. Your comment is attempting to support the stereotype "blacks are stupid" as "accurate but inconvenient". Yes? You must realize it's possible to talk about differences in education outcomes for different races without deciding to frame it in defense of the stereotype blacks are stupid, since you link to an article that does so. Yes? Yet you decided to use it support the stereotype "blacks are stupid". Yes? "Blacks are stupid" is a racist stereotype. Yes? You are supporting racist stereotypes on HN. Yes? You should should keep trying to double down on it? No.

by btilly 6y ago

BoorishBears 6y ago

Let's pretend for a second, that you just don't know how to write a simple thought in a coherent way, accidentally tried to say "the stereotype blacks are stupid is true", and aren't instead just backpedaling from your original shitty comment after being called out... You say it's a difference in environment, so why use that difference to defend a statement like "blacks are stupid"?! Why try to make a try and enforce a racist statement like "blacks are stupid", that's actually _less valid_ and _much more easily disproven_ than the hypothesis you claim you're _actually_ backing, that environmental differences lead to differences in intelligence? After all, while it's trivial to find studies questioning the reliability and validity (not just statistical validity) of IQ tests... it's _more_ trivial to find studies showing the effect of different cultures on IQ tests ability to even measure intelligence: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Culture-Fair-Cognitive-Ability-Assessment-Verney-Granholm/13925ddec275c8dbf1008b38ef76a5dc09dd9558 https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Culture-Fair-Cognitive... _The study you link is making connections to race with specific goals in mind that have nothing to do with trying to defend a stereotype as heinous as "blacks are stupid". In fact their point is literally the opposite, that what appears to be a simple gap in races, is actually a reflection of environmental differences._ It's clear to me that your own underlying bias caused you to try and draw a conclusion that literally does not exist, and you internally try to write off every single attempt to call out your own stupidity as pearl clutching. It's literally the opposite of defending a statement like "blacks are stupid" No testing gap being closed is continent on people "not sweeping under the rug the fact that blacks are stupid!" Now, let me be a little personal here, you are the worst kind of person and part of a growing plague. This new wave of people overestimating their intelligence and understanding, and undervaluing basic human decency because "it flies in the idea of logic!" and "you're only mad I said something heinous because of <insert overused logical fallacy>!!!!". There are a lot of truly awful things that you can justify if your only criteria is "I can misconstrue a study to make a shitty defense of it!" Do your friends at "Lean St" know that you spend your time defending statements like "blacks are stupid"? Maybe you should tell them?

btilly 6y ago
I've read your rant multiple times. You haven't exactly demonstrated good reading comprehension. Nor do I believe your personal attacks are justified. If you wish to argue that blacks do not score over a standard deviation lower on IQ tests, you're arguing against a mountain of evidence. If you wish to argue that this difference doesn't have pretty serious real-world consequences, you're arguing against another mountain of evidence. You can choose to argue that IQ is culturally biased. I have to admit that culture affects people's IQ. But in turn IQ measures mental abilities that will help you do well in a technologically based society. So if particular cultural ideas help kids grow up with better IQs, those ideas are worth adopting. If specific family interventions have a positive impact, they are worth considering as well. And if you refuse to do that for kids, you bear a share of the responsibility for their future failures. Seriously. IQ is a better predictor of your future success than your socioeconomic background. It is a better predictor than the color of your skin. The good side of that is that people are being judged more on their abilities than their background and race. That's good. But the bad side is that every year in which we see a large gap in SAT scores between blacks and whites, we are looking a future economic gap that will last decades. As a society, we refuse to even think about that. Which means that we choose to continue the problem.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  Read it again then, your entire comment is already answered to above. You can keep trying to switch direction like a weasel, but I could cut and paste the comment you replied to and it'd still be accurate because you didn't answer a single point brought up. Let's narrow the foxhole though, see if you can answer yes or no to a few simple questions: > The answer to the implicit question is simple and obvious. The stereotypes that proved accurate were often ones which people, for political reasons, wished to be inaccurate. > A simple example will demonstrate this. There is a stereotype that blacks are stupid. Your comment is attempting to support the stereotype "blacks are stupid" as "accurate but inconvenient". Yes? You must realize it's possible to talk about differences in education outcomes for different races without deciding to frame it in defense of the stereotype blacks are stupid, since you link to an article that does so. Yes? Yet you decided to use it support the stereotype "blacks are stupid". Yes? "Blacks are stupid" is a racist stereotype. Yes? You are supporting racist stereotypes on HN. Yes? You should should keep trying to double down on it? No.