4 ms·

Apologies for the kind of tangental question but just really curious. In the really early days of Amazon, did the company and/or the group of people feel like

Apologies for the kind of tangental question but just really curious. In the really early days of Amazon, did the company and/or the group of people feel like something really special, or did it feel like a totally regular bunch of people just working on some idea that was half decent? Was there any sense at all of the type of company it could become?

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
Both. For most of the time that I worked at amzn, it was really just Jeff, Shel (Kaphan) and myself, with Mackenzie apparently do the accounting somewhere else. The three of us were a tight threesome back then, and we knew that we were building something very new and quite possibly momentous (in particular, the idea of what we called "almost in time" retail, aka "we don't have it in stock but we can it for you really quickly"; of course, that idea has largely gone away these days). Jeff had much bigger dreams from day zero than most people acknowledge (basically, to be the Sears of the 21st century), and Shel and I both knew that. On the other hand, day to day work involved mostly the same old problems, there were the same conflicts (i excused myself from all discussions about website design because it was clear that Jeff and I were never going to agree about almost any of it), and the whole thing felt as if it could have folded up at any moment before about (say) October of 1995. After that, there were more people on board, sales were skyrocketing, and it was clear that it was a thing. I left amzn for many reasons, but in part because it was obvious to me by the fall of 1995 what kind of company it was going to become, and I wanted nothing to do with that. I still don't, which is why I've spoken out a bit more publically about the company over the last year or two.
- davnicwil 6y ago
  Thanks for this detailed and interesting answer, appreciate it!
- xiaolingxiao 6y ago
  Could you elaborate on what it could become part? And what was Jeff Bezos like as a thinker and programmer, is he really as brilliant as some people say he is ? What in your opinion was his greatest strength aside from timing and access to capital.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
    Jeff is an incredibly smart person. He's well informed, can think deeply, and quickly, and can connect across disciplines and boundaries. But ... his greatest strength is understanding that he's not smart enough, and the important thing is to hire people who are better than you to do the things that need to be done, so that you have time for thinking about what needs to be done. It was nice to work for a guy with a BS in CS, someone who understood aspects of the sorts of problems that myself and the other founding programmer faced in the early days. We could talk about scaling issues, or database design issues, and Jeff had more than your typical "boss" understanding of what we meant. But we were both much better programmers than Jeff would ever be. On the other hand, he's demonstrably much better at building and running a massive corporation, and much more willing to make decisions that many of us (I hope) would stumble over. What Amazon became was a massive corporation that didn't care much about employee burnout, didn't care much about its treatment of employees at all, and relentlessly focused people on their lives as consumers, when most of us spend more of our lives as employees and citizens. Amazon has been amazing for us all as consumers, but it's almost certainly a net negative when viewed through the lens of employees (within and outside the company) and citizens.
    - charliemil4 6y ago
      Something I've always wondered - before there's prestige and an aura around the company, how are 'really smart' people drawn to join an upstart? These folks (who are "smarter than") usually have offers from everywhere in the valley, and without prestige or big salary, I'm curious to know if the conversion is primarily a vision or a 'reality distortion field' like story? Or was there any burden of proof for Jeff on progress towards the vision? Edit: just saw you said Jeff knew the vision at the start, how did he prove he was the one to do it early on (founder-startup fit)?
      - TrackerFF 6y ago
        Probably a combination of good pitch / persuasion, first impression of the guy/gal pitching you, and the product itself. Also, keep in mind, Jeff came from a hedge fund, having worked/analyzed the (then) internet and consumer market - so it seems he had more than a hunch of its potential. And the fact that he was a tech guy (before banking), probably meant he could easily talk their language - in technical terms.

PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago

Both. For most of the time that I worked at amzn, it was really just Jeff, Shel (Kaphan) and myself, with Mackenzie apparently do the accounting somewhere else. The three of us were a tight threesome back then, and we knew that we were building something very new and quite possibly momentous (in particular, the idea of what we called "almost in time" retail, aka "we don't have it in stock but we can it for you really quickly"; of course, that idea has largely gone away these days). Jeff had much bigger dreams from day zero than most people acknowledge (basically, to be the Sears of the 21st century), and Shel and I both knew that. On the other hand, day to day work involved mostly the same old problems, there were the same conflicts (i excused myself from all discussions about website design because it was clear that Jeff and I were never going to agree about almost any of it), and the whole thing felt as if it could have folded up at any moment before about (say) October of 1995. After that, there were more people on board, sales were skyrocketing, and it was clear that it was a thing. I left amzn for many reasons, but in part because it was obvious to me by the fall of 1995 what kind of company it was going to become, and I wanted nothing to do with that. I still don't, which is why I've spoken out a bit more publically about the company over the last year or two.

davnicwil 6y ago
Thanks for this detailed and interesting answer, appreciate it!
xiaolingxiao 6y ago
Could you elaborate on what it could become part? And what was Jeff Bezos like as a thinker and programmer, is he really as brilliant as some people say he is ? What in your opinion was his greatest strength aside from timing and access to capital.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6y ago
  Jeff is an incredibly smart person. He's well informed, can think deeply, and quickly, and can connect across disciplines and boundaries. But ... his greatest strength is understanding that he's not smart enough, and the important thing is to hire people who are better than you to do the things that need to be done, so that you have time for thinking about what needs to be done. It was nice to work for a guy with a BS in CS, someone who understood aspects of the sorts of problems that myself and the other founding programmer faced in the early days. We could talk about scaling issues, or database design issues, and Jeff had more than your typical "boss" understanding of what we meant. But we were both much better programmers than Jeff would ever be. On the other hand, he's demonstrably much better at building and running a massive corporation, and much more willing to make decisions that many of us (I hope) would stumble over. What Amazon became was a massive corporation that didn't care much about employee burnout, didn't care much about its treatment of employees at all, and relentlessly focused people on their lives as consumers, when most of us spend more of our lives as employees and citizens. Amazon has been amazing for us all as consumers, but it's almost certainly a net negative when viewed through the lens of employees (within and outside the company) and citizens.
  - charliemil4 6y ago
    Something I've always wondered - before there's prestige and an aura around the company, how are 'really smart' people drawn to join an upstart? These folks (who are "smarter than") usually have offers from everywhere in the valley, and without prestige or big salary, I'm curious to know if the conversion is primarily a vision or a 'reality distortion field' like story? Or was there any burden of proof for Jeff on progress towards the vision? Edit: just saw you said Jeff knew the vision at the start, how did he prove he was the one to do it early on (founder-startup fit)?
    - TrackerFF 6y ago
      Probably a combination of good pitch / persuasion, first impression of the guy/gal pitching you, and the product itself. Also, keep in mind, Jeff came from a hedge fund, having worked/analyzed the (then) internet and consumer market - so it seems he had more than a hunch of its potential. And the fact that he was a tech guy (before banking), probably meant he could easily talk their language - in technical terms.