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Why should society give a fuck though? It's not really a problem society can solve for them. Plenty of people have shitty lives, either they can't find a partn

by LandR 6y ago

Why should society give a fuck though? It's not really a problem society can solve for them. Plenty of people have shitty lives, either they can't find a partner because they had the misfortune to be born ugly or maybe they were born with some awful disability, maybe they live in constant physical pain... Most of these people don't become angry bitter sociopaths. What would you expect society to do for them? Is it just sympathy they want?

mhh__ 6y ago
Things are improving, but male suicide rates are high for a reason. Society just isn't calibrated to allow men to be as emotional as women. Within every Incel is someone who's life has gone down a dark path. I bet a lot of them are doing it just to belong - having no friends hurts a lot more when you're young, schoolchildren can be really horrible to eachother.
- tomp 6y ago
  > Society just isn't calibrated to allow men to be as emotional as women. Or maybe men don’t have a need to be as emotional as women? After all, you could easily justify committing suicide as a rational solution to “my life is shit and will never get better”. The fact that women attempt more suicides (plea for help / attention => emotional) whereas men commit more suicides (they’re actually serious in their assessment that living is pointless) also suggests this. Happy to hear opposing arguments / data.
luckylion 6y ago
> Why should society give a fuck though? Why should it give a fuck if instead of hungry for love, they're just hungry. Or sick. Or anything other than fine, really. > Most of these people don't become angry bitter sociopaths. Citation needed. The amount of angry bitter sociopaths ranting about all kinds of things suggests that many are. > What would you expect society to do for them? The same society would do for any health issue, be it mental of physical. Help fix it, not belittle, mock and ostracize.
- throwaway4747l 6y ago
  How do you fix it though? I mean you can do thing like legalizing sex work and providing sex robots or something, but for most incels, it isn't about sex (if it were, there wouln't be incels in place where prositution is legal). It's about feeling desirable and desired, it's about social status. How exactly do you fix the feeling of not being desired? You can't force people to like you.
  - luckylion 6y ago
    There are multiple issues that go together, I believe. There's the actual "I'm not being treated as a desirable human" (or maybe even "as a human"), there's the other part of what that does to them. There are lots of people that are treated terribly by society, who have objectively terrible lives. But many of them aren't suffering as much from it. I believe that the issue lies in a) not feeling desired and b) the way to deal with that. There are people who share their fate but suffer far less. I'm sure it's not enough to drop some self-help blurp and "wow, why didn't I think of that", but I believe that therapy can help. I have no idea what kind of therapy is most effective though. But I'm sure even just handing out pamphlets will be much more effective than mocking and dehumanizing them and asking for their removal from society.
  - privacy_bodger 6y ago
    Three's also the fact house prices are generally set to be barely affordable by a high earning couple, which prices many single people out of the market and puts them at a huge economic disadvantage. Not sure how you'd fix that either.

by LandR 6y ago

mhh__ 6y ago

Things are improving, but male suicide rates are high for a reason. Society just isn't calibrated to allow men to be as emotional as women. Within every Incel is someone who's life has gone down a dark path. I bet a lot of them are doing it just to belong - having no friends hurts a lot more when you're young, schoolchildren can be really horrible to eachother.

tomp 6y ago
> Society just isn't calibrated to allow men to be as emotional as women. Or maybe men don’t have a need to be as emotional as women? After all, you could easily justify committing suicide as a rational solution to “my life is shit and will never get better”. The fact that women attempt more suicides (plea for help / attention => emotional) whereas men commit more suicides (they’re actually serious in their assessment that living is pointless) also suggests this. Happy to hear opposing arguments / data.

luckylion 6y ago

> Why should society give a fuck though? Why should it give a fuck if instead of hungry for love, they're just hungry. Or sick. Or anything other than fine, really. > Most of these people don't become angry bitter sociopaths. Citation needed. The amount of angry bitter sociopaths ranting about all kinds of things suggests that many are. > What would you expect society to do for them? The same society would do for any health issue, be it mental of physical. Help fix it, not belittle, mock and ostracize.

throwaway4747l 6y ago
How do you fix it though? I mean you can do thing like legalizing sex work and providing sex robots or something, but for most incels, it isn't about sex (if it were, there wouln't be incels in place where prositution is legal). It's about feeling desirable and desired, it's about social status. How exactly do you fix the feeling of not being desired? You can't force people to like you.
- luckylion 6y ago
  There are multiple issues that go together, I believe. There's the actual "I'm not being treated as a desirable human" (or maybe even "as a human"), there's the other part of what that does to them. There are lots of people that are treated terribly by society, who have objectively terrible lives. But many of them aren't suffering as much from it. I believe that the issue lies in a) not feeling desired and b) the way to deal with that. There are people who share their fate but suffer far less. I'm sure it's not enough to drop some self-help blurp and "wow, why didn't I think of that", but I believe that therapy can help. I have no idea what kind of therapy is most effective though. But I'm sure even just handing out pamphlets will be much more effective than mocking and dehumanizing them and asking for their removal from society.
- privacy_bodger 6y ago
  Three's also the fact house prices are generally set to be barely affordable by a high earning couple, which prices many single people out of the market and puts them at a huge economic disadvantage. Not sure how you'd fix that either.