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I hate this concept that blaming these young adults for being irresponsible is wrong because we should have know the students would be irresponsible. Sure, it’

I hate this concept that blaming these young adults for being irresponsible is wrong because we should have know the students would be irresponsible. Sure, it’s predictable, but that does zero to absolve the students. It just means that the admins are to blame also. They’re clearly hoping that holding rule breakers accountable will lead to other students rising to the challenge. It’s obvious that, before you punish/suspend/expel a bunch of them, they’ll act as normal. It remains to be seen what they’ll do afterwards.

lmilcin 6y ago
Here in Poland it seems nobody is truly enforcing this. Technically, you cannot enter anything without masks but neither employees nor patrons will react. Most people also wears their masks without covering their nose which shows how much attention they are paying to the whole thing -- the masks are only there to avoid a hefty fine. In this situation it is difficult to blame students. Young people have innate tendency to ignore orders and if "full" adults (I don't really like the term...) cannot show united front on somethnig then youngsters certainly won't.
danaris 6y ago
I can't speak for the general case, but in the case of the small university I work at, a huge reason the student body is so irresponsible is that the administration is well-known to turn a blind eye to whole rafts of terrible behaviours (some of which are blatantly illegal, others merely really bad ideas). If you've been demonstrating for the past 80 years that students who put on unsanctioned parties, put racist graffiti on their neighbours' whiteboards, and have suitcases full of heroin in their dorm rooms won't be punished in any way, why should they believe that now you're going to punish them for...putting on unsanctioned parties?
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  Asking universities to police student behaviour in any form beyond academic/on sanctioned trips is absurd. If gatherings need to be banned, police should enforce the ban on gatherings. Universities exist to instruct and learn, not be substitute parents.
  - generj 6y ago
    Large universities often run their own campus police departments. They don’t act as substitute parents but substitute governments. In this capacity, the university has to police student behavior - it is the only entity which can do so. Universities have a wide degree of latitude in how aggressively they pursue crimes on campus (often this causes friction with the hosting town’s police force). Campus police can be less harsh on drug offenses, as the GP describes.
  - danaris 6y ago
    At the university I work at, the frat houses are owned by the university. The vast majority of all students live in university-owned housing, and while there are unsanctioned parties in off-campus housing where the university has no jurisdiction, a) Most parties are not. They occur on university property. Therefore, the university has a responsibility and liability for what goes on there. b) The university is known to lean on the local police force (which is already very small) to not do anything about student parties either on or off campus. c) The university has, except for this past year due to the pandemic, funded and run every year a huge weekend-long party every spring. Until a very few years ago, this was poorly-enough policed that students from the local high school regularly got in and got themselves smashed. One underage girl (the last year before they instituted stricter access controls) got so drunk she passed out and nearly died. This isn't about being "substitute parents". The university has a responsibility both to its students and to the community in which it exists, and it is blatantly shirking that responsibility just so it can give the students a "fun experience" so they will remember it fondly and give it lots of money as alumni. (This isn't even speculation; it is well-known that this is the reason for the lack of policies with teeth.)

lmilcin 6y ago

Here in Poland it seems nobody is truly enforcing this. Technically, you cannot enter anything without masks but neither employees nor patrons will react. Most people also wears their masks without covering their nose which shows how much attention they are paying to the whole thing -- the masks are only there to avoid a hefty fine. In this situation it is difficult to blame students. Young people have innate tendency to ignore orders and if "full" adults (I don't really like the term...) cannot show united front on somethnig then youngsters certainly won't.

danaris 6y ago

I can't speak for the general case, but in the case of the small university I work at, a huge reason the student body is so irresponsible is that the administration is well-known to turn a blind eye to whole rafts of terrible behaviours (some of which are blatantly illegal, others merely really bad ideas). If you've been demonstrating for the past 80 years that students who put on unsanctioned parties, put racist graffiti on their neighbours' whiteboards, and have suitcases full of heroin in their dorm rooms won't be punished in any way, why should they believe that now you're going to punish them for...putting on unsanctioned parties?

MattGaiser 6y ago
Asking universities to police student behaviour in any form beyond academic/on sanctioned trips is absurd. If gatherings need to be banned, police should enforce the ban on gatherings. Universities exist to instruct and learn, not be substitute parents.
- generj 6y ago
  Large universities often run their own campus police departments. They don’t act as substitute parents but substitute governments. In this capacity, the university has to police student behavior - it is the only entity which can do so. Universities have a wide degree of latitude in how aggressively they pursue crimes on campus (often this causes friction with the hosting town’s police force). Campus police can be less harsh on drug offenses, as the GP describes.
- danaris 6y ago
  At the university I work at, the frat houses are owned by the university. The vast majority of all students live in university-owned housing, and while there are unsanctioned parties in off-campus housing where the university has no jurisdiction, a) Most parties are not. They occur on university property. Therefore, the university has a responsibility and liability for what goes on there. b) The university is known to lean on the local police force (which is already very small) to not do anything about student parties either on or off campus. c) The university has, except for this past year due to the pandemic, funded and run every year a huge weekend-long party every spring. Until a very few years ago, this was poorly-enough policed that students from the local high school regularly got in and got themselves smashed. One underage girl (the last year before they instituted stricter access controls) got so drunk she passed out and nearly died. This isn't about being "substitute parents". The university has a responsibility both to its students and to the community in which it exists, and it is blatantly shirking that responsibility just so it can give the students a "fun experience" so they will remember it fondly and give it lots of money as alumni. (This isn't even speculation; it is well-known that this is the reason for the lack of policies with teeth.)