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The blame for this lies solely with those with the political and institutional power to have mitigated the impacts of this global pandemic. If not for their rec

The blame for this lies solely with those with the political and institutional power to have mitigated the impacts of this global pandemic. If not for their reckless inaction we would not be in this position in the first place. Any talk of blaming teens and twenty-somethings for this is nothing more than a deflection.

ashtonkem 6y ago
What’s particularly galling is that some of the people attempting to blame the students are most familiar with how students behave.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  You don’t get a pass for bad behaviour because you have a long history of bad behaviour.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    College age kids have exhibited poor behavior since ... forever? You can rage against this, or you can design systems designed to function despite the poor risk/reward calculations of some people. Only one actually gets results, the other just lets you shift blame.
  - true_religion 6y ago
    These students don't have a history of bad behavior, they have no history at all because it's their first time living alone, and making such decisions for themselves. We know that people often make mistakes when they lack experience, it's our responsibility to ensure those mistakes don't lead to catastrophic loss merely because you graduated high school in the wrong year.
- viraptor 6y ago
  There's a bit of generalising here. This is not "how students behave". This is "how people who really want social gatherings and in person parties behave" regardless if they're students or not. The idea that you can't tell an adult they have to wear masks in a certain environment is silly. Or to put it in a different way, if the students stayed at home, specific rules would apply to them. There's no reason they shouldn't apply on the campus as well. They're paying for college, not for a right to party.
tzs 6y ago
Are you seriously arguing that if X fails to take action that would prevent some bad thing from happening, then any Y that comes along and takes actions that make that bad thing worth is completely without responsibility? If someone burgles a place that left their door unlocked, do you think that the people who did not lock the door bear sole blame for the burglary? If I build a campfire in an area full of dry weeds (ignoring a ban on campfires due to the fire danger) and that starts a big wildfire, I'm blameless--the blame lies solely with whoever maintains the campground for not having cleared out the dry weeds?
- spideymans 6y ago
  98 percent of the blame for this situation is in the hands of those with institutional power. The politicians, congress, educational leaders, etc... I’m not going to waste my energy accosting a bunch of students over the situation. They are not the reason we are in this mess. Those in power could make the pandemic more or less disappear at their convenience if they acted responsibly. The students are not the reason we’re in this mess. As said in the article: > Julia L. Marcus, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at Harvard Medical School, believes they should. “What’s happening on college campuses is a microcosm of what’s happening in this country, which is a deflection of responsibility from the top down to the individual,” she said in an interview. Don’t fall for the game they are playing (and by they I mean political and institutional leaders). This discussion serves only as a deflection from the root of the issue.
- xnyan 6y ago
  It’s not a zero sum situation, everyone is responsible for their own decisions. If I ran a National Park in a high risk wildfire situation, and someone asked me if i would allow hundreds of Boy Scouts to camp at the park for months, then knowing what I know about the behaviours of Boy Scouts I would be totally negligent in my position if I let them camp. Some percentage of boys will not be supervised appropriately, the risk is too great that irresponsible use of fire will happen. The Boy Scout who started the fire would absolutely have made a mistake too, but as the person tasked with management of the park I as well would be responsible for my decision to let a high risk activity occur. I don’t think it takes a huge amount of experience to know that congregating hundreds of teenagers and young adults is going to lead to close physical contact among young adults. If your goal is to avoid the spread of COVID, it’s a bad idea. Source: was a Boy Scout and went to college

ashtonkem 6y ago

What’s particularly galling is that some of the people attempting to blame the students are most familiar with how students behave.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
MattGaiser 6y ago
You don’t get a pass for bad behaviour because you have a long history of bad behaviour.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  College age kids have exhibited poor behavior since ... forever? You can rage against this, or you can design systems designed to function despite the poor risk/reward calculations of some people. Only one actually gets results, the other just lets you shift blame.
- true_religion 6y ago
  These students don't have a history of bad behavior, they have no history at all because it's their first time living alone, and making such decisions for themselves. We know that people often make mistakes when they lack experience, it's our responsibility to ensure those mistakes don't lead to catastrophic loss merely because you graduated high school in the wrong year.
viraptor 6y ago
There's a bit of generalising here. This is not "how students behave". This is "how people who really want social gatherings and in person parties behave" regardless if they're students or not. The idea that you can't tell an adult they have to wear masks in a certain environment is silly. Or to put it in a different way, if the students stayed at home, specific rules would apply to them. There's no reason they shouldn't apply on the campus as well. They're paying for college, not for a right to party.

tzs 6y ago

Are you seriously arguing that if X fails to take action that would prevent some bad thing from happening, then any Y that comes along and takes actions that make that bad thing worth is completely without responsibility? If someone burgles a place that left their door unlocked, do you think that the people who did not lock the door bear sole blame for the burglary? If I build a campfire in an area full of dry weeds (ignoring a ban on campfires due to the fire danger) and that starts a big wildfire, I'm blameless--the blame lies solely with whoever maintains the campground for not having cleared out the dry weeds?

spideymans 6y ago
98 percent of the blame for this situation is in the hands of those with institutional power. The politicians, congress, educational leaders, etc... I’m not going to waste my energy accosting a bunch of students over the situation. They are not the reason we are in this mess. Those in power could make the pandemic more or less disappear at their convenience if they acted responsibly. The students are not the reason we’re in this mess. As said in the article: > Julia L. Marcus, an infectious-disease epidemiologist at Harvard Medical School, believes they should. “What’s happening on college campuses is a microcosm of what’s happening in this country, which is a deflection of responsibility from the top down to the individual,” she said in an interview. Don’t fall for the game they are playing (and by they I mean political and institutional leaders). This discussion serves only as a deflection from the root of the issue.
xnyan 6y ago
It’s not a zero sum situation, everyone is responsible for their own decisions. If I ran a National Park in a high risk wildfire situation, and someone asked me if i would allow hundreds of Boy Scouts to camp at the park for months, then knowing what I know about the behaviours of Boy Scouts I would be totally negligent in my position if I let them camp. Some percentage of boys will not be supervised appropriately, the risk is too great that irresponsible use of fire will happen. The Boy Scout who started the fire would absolutely have made a mistake too, but as the person tasked with management of the park I as well would be responsible for my decision to let a high risk activity occur. I don’t think it takes a huge amount of experience to know that congregating hundreds of teenagers and young adults is going to lead to close physical contact among young adults. If your goal is to avoid the spread of COVID, it’s a bad idea. Source: was a Boy Scout and went to college