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Every VC in the world right now is betting on this becoming a thing... problem is that No Code/ Low Code as a product doesn't actually solve the problem that th

by jppope 6y ago

Every VC in the world right now is betting on this becoming a thing... problem is that No Code/ Low Code as a product doesn't actually solve the problem that they are trying to solve. The overarching concept of No Code/ Low Code is that "code" is the hard part of building software, ergo if we can make it so "normal" people don't have to code the problem is solved. Of course we all know that code isn't the hard part of the job- if code was the issue software developers would all be using No Code/ Low Code solutions already (as it's been pointed out, they've been around forever). No Code/ Low Code is about selling accessibility to the wantrepreneur crowd... the same people that have an "app idea" that they want you to build. It's a huge market, but it isn't going to have an impact on software development any more than model rockets would have on the aerospace industry. If the No Code/ Low Code tools were any good software developers would already be using them. (When I am talking about No Code/ Low code, I am not talking about things like Webflow / Dreamweaver NOT solutions like Serverless.)

bE9a3S5So8igd3 6y ago
I agree with this. I do wonder if low/no-code products will ever become good enough that you'd feel comfortable actually using one. I believe a part of this is having infrastructure/system that can describe itself in sufficient detail. Then the ability to modify itself with sufficient variety. Fundamentally I've seen ORMs/APIs/integrations that are more or less a crap shoot as to whether or not they're going to work, god forbid if a version of something is upgraded. The fallibility of it all will prevent this from happening.
- jppope 6y ago
  they totally will... but it's probably going to show up the way you would expect it to... some open source project will get really good at helping you configure 95% of your app with a CLI or something... then you'll mod some methods etc. Eventually that will transform into something that can predict what you'll need. IMO stuff like serverless, OpenAPI, some of the boilerplates out there, etc are already heading in that direction. It used to take me a week to build a standard CRUD API with a handful of models, now I can do it circa 15-30min.
cryptica 6y ago
Technology is no longer a tool for economic growth, it is now almost entirely a tool for economic control. So investors should adjust their strategy to the new reality. "Does this technology provide a means for seizing control of the existing economy?" That's the question which investors should be asking. I think cryptocurrency is the only technology which can achieve this due to the way it transcends existing legal frameworks in terms of ownership rights; a bit like the notion of corporate personhood allowed corporations to gain an upper hand and transcend the legal frameworks of its time. Corporate stocks were vehicles for inter-generational wealth transfer and the next vehicles will be cryptocurrencies.
codewritinfool 6y ago
I came here to write basically this. I agree, and by the way, "wantrepreneur" is perfect.
pydry 6y ago
It's also been something a lot of investors have put their hopes in before and had them dashed (probably starting from the early 80s). It might be that This Time Is Different, but there were a lot of times in the past when "This Time Was Different" too.
tyingq 6y ago
Some of these tools are successful in larger companies, basically to handle demand for crud apps for somewhat technical business groups. Quickbase is doing quite well, for example.
- jnwatson 6y ago
  Essentially the Microsoft Access market of old.
  - tyingq 6y ago
    Yes good observation. Though nicer for the IT department because you can actually see what everyone is doing, what data is there, integrations, etc.
Eridrus 6y ago
As a counterpoint, my ML team regularly dumps data into Google Sheets for review / note taking, and we build dashboards using some SQL dashboarding tools. I've cobbled together email sign up forms for some non-technical side projects with Google Forms, App Script and MailChimp. I'm not a frontend developer so maybe frontend folks will tell me it's super easy, but my feeling is that there is a lot of space for low code tools that produce software that is not polished, but good enough.
- meiraleal 6y ago
  That's not code, it is software usage. The same way a gamer is not a coder when he type some small things in the console or add some script.
anotheryou 6y ago
isn't there wordpress devs that don't code and make (for now) slow loading websites? I think low-code is basically just graphical programming. If you want it more powerful/universal you need to code just the same. There might just be more or less big library helpers/blocks. Maybe it's just the next step of being "high-level" and now is indeed the time for it. Also if you manage to write something as a nice XML/yaml/json you might as well put a nice UI on it.

by jppope 6y ago

bE9a3S5So8igd3 6y ago

I agree with this. I do wonder if low/no-code products will ever become good enough that you'd feel comfortable actually using one. I believe a part of this is having infrastructure/system that can describe itself in sufficient detail. Then the ability to modify itself with sufficient variety. Fundamentally I've seen ORMs/APIs/integrations that are more or less a crap shoot as to whether or not they're going to work, god forbid if a version of something is upgraded. The fallibility of it all will prevent this from happening.

jppope 6y ago
they totally will... but it's probably going to show up the way you would expect it to... some open source project will get really good at helping you configure 95% of your app with a CLI or something... then you'll mod some methods etc. Eventually that will transform into something that can predict what you'll need. IMO stuff like serverless, OpenAPI, some of the boilerplates out there, etc are already heading in that direction. It used to take me a week to build a standard CRUD API with a handful of models, now I can do it circa 15-30min.

cryptica 6y ago

Technology is no longer a tool for economic growth, it is now almost entirely a tool for economic control. So investors should adjust their strategy to the new reality. "Does this technology provide a means for seizing control of the existing economy?" That's the question which investors should be asking. I think cryptocurrency is the only technology which can achieve this due to the way it transcends existing legal frameworks in terms of ownership rights; a bit like the notion of corporate personhood allowed corporations to gain an upper hand and transcend the legal frameworks of its time. Corporate stocks were vehicles for inter-generational wealth transfer and the next vehicles will be cryptocurrencies.

codewritinfool 6y ago

I came here to write basically this. I agree, and by the way, "wantrepreneur" is perfect.

pydry 6y ago

It's also been something a lot of investors have put their hopes in before and had them dashed (probably starting from the early 80s). It might be that This Time Is Different, but there were a lot of times in the past when "This Time Was Different" too.

tyingq 6y ago

Some of these tools are successful in larger companies, basically to handle demand for crud apps for somewhat technical business groups. Quickbase is doing quite well, for example.

jnwatson 6y ago
Essentially the Microsoft Access market of old.
- tyingq 6y ago
  Yes good observation. Though nicer for the IT department because you can actually see what everyone is doing, what data is there, integrations, etc.

Eridrus 6y ago

As a counterpoint, my ML team regularly dumps data into Google Sheets for review / note taking, and we build dashboards using some SQL dashboarding tools. I've cobbled together email sign up forms for some non-technical side projects with Google Forms, App Script and MailChimp. I'm not a frontend developer so maybe frontend folks will tell me it's super easy, but my feeling is that there is a lot of space for low code tools that produce software that is not polished, but good enough.

meiraleal 6y ago
That's not code, it is software usage. The same way a gamer is not a coder when he type some small things in the console or add some script.

anotheryou 6y ago

isn't there wordpress devs that don't code and make (for now) slow loading websites? I think low-code is basically just graphical programming. If you want it more powerful/universal you need to code just the same. There might just be more or less big library helpers/blocks. Maybe it's just the next step of being "high-level" and now is indeed the time for it. Also if you manage to write something as a nice XML/yaml/json you might as well put a nice UI on it.