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Ok another clickbait and shallow article. HN needs to stop promoting these. Dropshipping in itself is nothing wrong. Dropshipping with the intent of defrauding

by la6471 6y ago

Ok another clickbait and shallow article. HN needs to stop promoting these. Dropshipping in itself is nothing wrong. Dropshipping with the intent of defrauding people and selling counterfeits is what is wrong. Why cannot the writers of these articles be precise and responsible in choosing the title of their articles? With one stroke of pen they malign a whole group of people without any second thoughts.

wschfdkbrmcdf 6y ago
It’s the BBC
- awakeasleep 6y ago
  You're taking downvotes here, but I agree. The most consistent source of surface-level, near clickbait articles that make it to the top of HN is the BBC.
- optimalsolver 6y ago
  These days, it takes me a moment to realize that term also stands for the British Broadcasting Corporation.
whoopdedo 6y ago
The question I'd ask is can a dropshipper avoid selling counterfeits? They never inspect the product for QC. How do they know when the exporter is being dishonest?
- gboss 6y ago
  Yes absolutely. There are plenty of dropshippers that have relationships with manufacturers and wholesalers that only buy from the authentic manufacturer.
  - dustingetz 6y ago
    Multiple fallacies in this thinking, see https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2019/12/29/perfect-competition/ https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2019/12/29/perfect-competition/
- rumanator 6y ago
  > The question I'd ask is can a dropshipper avoid selling counterfeits? They never inspect the product for QC. It's apparent that dropshippers know they are being dishonest and simply don't care, in a similar manner how fraudsters don't care if their victims get the shaft.
  - silverpepsi 6y ago
    I'm going to guess you guys are using code words to talk about eBay and Amazon? My front page of saved searches on ebay is over 50% counterfeits, I complain to eBay relentlessly. Also try hitting amazon.fr and search Balmain. At least 60% counterfeit, just one example. If the governments will do NOTHING to set an example on the largest dropshippers in the world, why on earth would the small fry hesitate to compete in this space? Why should ebay and amazon reap all the profits from stolen intellectual propery?
- alexchamberlain 6y ago
  Dropshippers don't _have_ to be exporters; there's plenty of companies that will handle an order on your behalf that are based in the US/UK/EU/<insert your country here>. Isn’t this just retail?
  - ehnto 6y ago
    It is, and that's what dropshipping was from the start. People negotiating with manufacturers for shipping direct from their warehouses. What you see with the "hustler" dropshippers now is that they are buying from an additional middleman, who is the equivalent of a bucket salesman in a gold rush. Dropshipping existed before Amazon, but Amazon took over fullfilment, and these other middlemen became the suppliers for the people trying to get rich quick with dropshipping.
- masklinn 6y ago
  > The question I'd ask is can a dropshipper avoid selling counterfeits? The original concept of dropshipping was that you'd get a product manufactured (or would sell a white-label product, or would be a reseller for a large company), but the product would go straight from the manufacturer to the consumer without having to stop at your own warehouse. It makes a lot of sense in lots of businesses and has no reason to yield counterfeits, it avoids having to hold stock (so your costs are lower which means you can sell for less, or can leave more to the manufacturer) yet the product doesn't have to stop by your warehouse so the buyer waits less. Many sellers or designers don't manufacture their products, they contract the manufacturing to a company with those capabilities (often in SEA), they might QA every piece initially to make sure everything's ship shape, but once every kink has been worked out they only need to sample to ensure the product conforms to expectations (or separately contract on-site QA at the manufacturer), they don't need to personally inspect every product. At that point, if the manufacturer can drop-ship, chances are it's a win for everyone.
madengr 6y ago
This is done all the time with sales to the federal government. Establish a disadvantage business and get a 10% cut of very expensive purchases (test equipment, computers, etc) all drop shipped from the manufacturer. How can you spend millions of dollars overnight (money near the end of the FY)? Pallets of computers, all dropped shipped from HP, but ordered through a small, disadvantaged businesses. This place is an example: https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/business/santa-fes-wildflower-international-wins-nearly-billion-dollar-military-contract/article_cf7012f6-e2ec-11ea-8bc9-0be63adbadf6.html https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/business/santa-fes-wi...
ForHackernews 6y ago
Sorry, what's the complaint here? Dropshipping really is promoted as a get-rich-quick scheme, and it's not like drop-shippers care about the quality of their products. What is the article you wanted to see? "Some fraction of cheap goods from China are fake; some buyers displeased."
mellosouls 6y ago
Out of interest, what value do legit drop-shippers add generally? Edit: thanks for all the answers.
- Reebz 6y ago
  If you reverse it: Effectively it’s the manufacturers outsourcing a sales funnel.
  - MildlySerious 6y ago
    It's obvious after reading it, but I can't say I've thought about it like that. Interesting take.
  - mmerlin 6y ago
    Dropshipper also absorbs the losses from credit card fraud, de-risking ecommerce for the manufacturer.
  - 082349872349872 6y ago
    Salesmen are generally on some kind of commission structure. A dropshipper not only works on straight commission, they give all their hot leads to the manufacturer, and make all their pitches in public.
- post_break 6y ago
  I can get a product tomorrow, vs a product in a month from AliExpress assuming the boat isn’t the slow boat.
  - xenocyon 6y ago
    > I can get a product tomorrow Wait, what you're describing above isn't dropshipping.
    - post_break 6y ago
      Depending on what I buy it is. Exhaust for cars are often drop shipped. Ordering something from a major exhaust company can be a nightmare, ordering from a drop shipper streamlines the process and I can just hop on eBay and not need to make an account with Borla for example, call them, payment details, etc.
chrisseaton 6y ago
> Dropshipping in itself is nothing wrong. Dropshipping with the intent of defrauding people and selling counterfeits is what is wrong. That is already exactly what the article says. > All this is legal and often done well. But the anonymity it confers means there is also abuse.
- SilasX 6y ago
  Okay but the title is worded like Dropshipping is inherently wrong and thus "poisons the well".
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    Are we reading the same title? > Dropshipping: Hustlers making millions from goods they never handle And who are you quoting? The article doesn't include the word 'poisons' at all.
    - SilasX 6y ago
      Yes. That title is worded like the problem is dropshipping, or making money from goods you don't handle, rather then the hustling/fraud. I put "poisons the well" in quotes to indicate it's a stock phrase: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
    - LordDragonfang 6y ago
      The word "hustler" has fairly negative connotations, and "goods they never handle" implies they're not doing real work or adding value. Most people view arbitrage as kind of scummy unless there's some actual value-add. In many cases, there is some, like using domain expertise to find cheaper or more reliable versions of the same product, or the time-cost of finding sales. Those are things that people are often fine paying a nominal markup for as long as it still presents a better deal for them. But that's not always the case, obviously. There's a reason why "cutting out the middleman" is a popular phrase.
mattbee 6y ago
Answer: because journalists don't get to write the headlines to their articles. Clickbait means deliberately withholding a key piece of information from a headline ("you'll never believe what this area woman found in her piano" etc) - this headline doesn't do that. It's a decent interview with someone who expresses a view of the industry as sketchy. I don't get the disdain.
- ourmandave 6y ago
  Now I wanna know what she found in her piano.
  - scollet 6y ago
    It was strings.
qzw 6y ago
Kind of like the term “hacker”? I’m just going to assume there’s a site out there called Dropshipper News where the white hat dropshippers gather to talk about their industry and bemoan the negative connotations the name has taken on.

by la6471 6y ago

wschfdkbrmcdf 6y ago

It’s the BBC

awakeasleep 6y ago
You're taking downvotes here, but I agree. The most consistent source of surface-level, near clickbait articles that make it to the top of HN is the BBC.
optimalsolver 6y ago
These days, it takes me a moment to realize that term also stands for the British Broadcasting Corporation.

whoopdedo 6y ago

The question I'd ask is can a dropshipper avoid selling counterfeits? They never inspect the product for QC. How do they know when the exporter is being dishonest?

gboss 6y ago
Yes absolutely. There are plenty of dropshippers that have relationships with manufacturers and wholesalers that only buy from the authentic manufacturer.
- dustingetz 6y ago
  Multiple fallacies in this thinking, see https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2019/12/29/perfect-competition/ https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2019/12/29/perfect-competition/
rumanator 6y ago
> The question I'd ask is can a dropshipper avoid selling counterfeits? They never inspect the product for QC. It's apparent that dropshippers know they are being dishonest and simply don't care, in a similar manner how fraudsters don't care if their victims get the shaft.
- silverpepsi 6y ago
  I'm going to guess you guys are using code words to talk about eBay and Amazon? My front page of saved searches on ebay is over 50% counterfeits, I complain to eBay relentlessly. Also try hitting amazon.fr and search Balmain. At least 60% counterfeit, just one example. If the governments will do NOTHING to set an example on the largest dropshippers in the world, why on earth would the small fry hesitate to compete in this space? Why should ebay and amazon reap all the profits from stolen intellectual propery?
alexchamberlain 6y ago
Dropshippers don't _have_ to be exporters; there's plenty of companies that will handle an order on your behalf that are based in the US/UK/EU/<insert your country here>. Isn’t this just retail?
- ehnto 6y ago
  It is, and that's what dropshipping was from the start. People negotiating with manufacturers for shipping direct from their warehouses. What you see with the "hustler" dropshippers now is that they are buying from an additional middleman, who is the equivalent of a bucket salesman in a gold rush. Dropshipping existed before Amazon, but Amazon took over fullfilment, and these other middlemen became the suppliers for the people trying to get rich quick with dropshipping.
masklinn 6y ago
> The question I'd ask is can a dropshipper avoid selling counterfeits? The original concept of dropshipping was that you'd get a product manufactured (or would sell a white-label product, or would be a reseller for a large company), but the product would go straight from the manufacturer to the consumer without having to stop at your own warehouse. It makes a lot of sense in lots of businesses and has no reason to yield counterfeits, it avoids having to hold stock (so your costs are lower which means you can sell for less, or can leave more to the manufacturer) yet the product doesn't have to stop by your warehouse so the buyer waits less. Many sellers or designers don't manufacture their products, they contract the manufacturing to a company with those capabilities (often in SEA), they might QA every piece initially to make sure everything's ship shape, but once every kink has been worked out they only need to sample to ensure the product conforms to expectations (or separately contract on-site QA at the manufacturer), they don't need to personally inspect every product. At that point, if the manufacturer can drop-ship, chances are it's a win for everyone.

madengr 6y ago

This is done all the time with sales to the federal government. Establish a disadvantage business and get a 10% cut of very expensive purchases (test equipment, computers, etc) all drop shipped from the manufacturer. How can you spend millions of dollars overnight (money near the end of the FY)? Pallets of computers, all dropped shipped from HP, but ordered through a small, disadvantaged businesses. This place is an example: https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/business/santa-fes-wildflower-international-wins-nearly-billion-dollar-military-contract/article_cf7012f6-e2ec-11ea-8bc9-0be63adbadf6.html https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/business/santa-fes-wi...

ForHackernews 6y ago

Sorry, what's the complaint here? Dropshipping really is promoted as a get-rich-quick scheme, and it's not like drop-shippers care about the quality of their products. What is the article you wanted to see? "Some fraction of cheap goods from China are fake; some buyers displeased."

mellosouls 6y ago

Out of interest, what value do legit drop-shippers add generally? Edit: thanks for all the answers.

Reebz 6y ago
If you reverse it: Effectively it’s the manufacturers outsourcing a sales funnel.
- MildlySerious 6y ago
  It's obvious after reading it, but I can't say I've thought about it like that. Interesting take.
- mmerlin 6y ago
  Dropshipper also absorbs the losses from credit card fraud, de-risking ecommerce for the manufacturer.
- 082349872349872 6y ago
  Salesmen are generally on some kind of commission structure. A dropshipper not only works on straight commission, they give all their hot leads to the manufacturer, and make all their pitches in public.
post_break 6y ago
I can get a product tomorrow, vs a product in a month from AliExpress assuming the boat isn’t the slow boat.
- xenocyon 6y ago
  > I can get a product tomorrow Wait, what you're describing above isn't dropshipping.
  - post_break 6y ago
    Depending on what I buy it is. Exhaust for cars are often drop shipped. Ordering something from a major exhaust company can be a nightmare, ordering from a drop shipper streamlines the process and I can just hop on eBay and not need to make an account with Borla for example, call them, payment details, etc.

chrisseaton 6y ago

> Dropshipping in itself is nothing wrong. Dropshipping with the intent of defrauding people and selling counterfeits is what is wrong. That is already exactly what the article says. > All this is legal and often done well. But the anonymity it confers means there is also abuse.

SilasX 6y ago
Okay but the title is worded like Dropshipping is inherently wrong and thus "poisons the well".
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  Are we reading the same title? > Dropshipping: Hustlers making millions from goods they never handle And who are you quoting? The article doesn't include the word 'poisons' at all.
  - SilasX 6y ago
    Yes. That title is worded like the problem is dropshipping, or making money from goods you don't handle, rather then the hustling/fraud. I put "poisons the well" in quotes to indicate it's a stock phrase: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
  - LordDragonfang 6y ago
    The word "hustler" has fairly negative connotations, and "goods they never handle" implies they're not doing real work or adding value. Most people view arbitrage as kind of scummy unless there's some actual value-add. In many cases, there is some, like using domain expertise to find cheaper or more reliable versions of the same product, or the time-cost of finding sales. Those are things that people are often fine paying a nominal markup for as long as it still presents a better deal for them. But that's not always the case, obviously. There's a reason why "cutting out the middleman" is a popular phrase.

mattbee 6y ago

Answer: because journalists don't get to write the headlines to their articles. Clickbait means deliberately withholding a key piece of information from a headline ("you'll never believe what this area woman found in her piano" etc) - this headline doesn't do that. It's a decent interview with someone who expresses a view of the industry as sketchy. I don't get the disdain.

ourmandave 6y ago
Now I wanna know what she found in her piano.
- scollet 6y ago
  It was strings.

qzw 6y ago

Kind of like the term “hacker”? I’m just going to assume there’s a site out there called Dropshipper News where the white hat dropshippers gather to talk about their industry and bemoan the negative connotations the name has taken on.