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That being a human being that adds value to society does not require everyone to like you.

by max_ 6y ago

watwut 6y ago
"Not everyone liked him" is sort of understatement. We can accept and celebrate his contributions without pretending that the dislike for Newton was all about some mild unlikability.
- bryanrasmussen 6y ago
  I guess I'm in the medium unlikability school. I mean, he seems as unlikable as a significant number of programmers who are not Isaac Newton despite pretensions to equivalent accomplishment. https://inversesquare.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/friday-isaac-newton-blogging-how-mean-was-he/ https://inversesquare.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/friday-isaac-... on edit: meaning some programmers are not quick to make friends, and are not convivial, perhaps due to some neuro-atypical qualities, which I expect was probably the case with Newton. Not that programmers condemn people to death as their jobs generally do not require it.
  - watwut 6y ago
    I found the bigger issue to be the stuffing supposedly neutral comitee with friends in dispute with Leibniz, so that they rule your way. Or stealing Flamsteeds work and publishing it under Edmund Halley, Flamsteed’s ennemy name. Destroying last portrait of Robert Hooke cause he was competitor and disagreed with me. These and others are major assholery issues, major ego issues. Not just "little bit neuro-atypical". Typical programmer is much much more ethical then that. Typical programmer is not actually ego maniac Newton was said to be either. That is incidentally my issue. Can't have achievement without significantly downplaying major assholery and narcissist-like behavior. While trying to tar completely innocent uninvolved groups, like neuro-atypical or programmers with that. And we even could avoid whole dicussion here, had people were not insistent on "just a slow to make friends".
    - mlyle 6y ago
      > I found the bigger issue to be the stuffing supposedly neutral comitee with friends in dispute with Leibniz, so that they rule your way. Or stealing Flamsteeds work and publishing it under Edmund Halley, Flamsteed’s ennemy name. It's important to consider the exact context that this happened in. Newton was a jerk, but his contemporaries don't come off smelling like roses, either. Newton had to deal with Hooke stuffing committees and rallying political support, too. This is the way the top of the Royal Society looked in the 17th century. > Destroying last portrait of Robert Hooke cause he was competitor and disagreed with me The current prevailing thought is that this is just myth.
      - watwut 6y ago
        Yeah, but that is exactly part of what we should stop pretending not happened. Prople really don't like to admit - these high powered people and "heroes" were massive unethical assholes. Instead, we take their own word about themselves and about their enemies as gospel. And I think the way we tiptoe around it and refuse to admit dynamics and acts involved is related to why we can't deal with contemporary narcissists either. And what it does is that it is disadvantaging honest people, because they learn about how it really works only after it costed them.
    - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
      >I found the bigger issue to be the stuffing supposedly neutral comitee with friends in dispute with Leibniz, so that they rule your way.... I certainly don't agree with this, but that is because my ethics are informed by a culture in which these things are considered bad. I believe there are cultures in which it is the way things are done, and in my readings of earlier centuries their ethics were not ours. >These and others are major assholery issues, major ego issues. There is a particular relatively famous programmer that I think of when I think 'asshole programmer', back when I used to go to conferences I would see him get up and tear down medium level programmers during their sessions. I don't want to say his name in case I ever have to confront him, as I like to keep my powder dry. I have met other programmers that were just as big jerks, although without this guy's accomplishments. Obviously the programmer in question accomplishments pale in comparison to those of Newton. So I believe if I met Newton I would think - what an asshole!! but I would also somehow feel his contributions to the world did something to make up for his social inadequacies. So I guess I'm saying when I get my time machine after checking kill Hitler off my bucket list I probably won't be going to punch Isaac Newton in the nose for second place. >And we even could avoid whole dicussion here, had people were not insistent on "just a slow to make friends". Yes we could have avoided whole discussion here, if we just agreed with your viewpoint. But I don't agree, and so the discussion evidently needed to be had. on edit: also the committee stuff sounds like a lot of the stuff I read about malfeasance in academia so - again sounds like sort of garden variety asshole there.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    He took more than the average amount of glee in executing counterfeiters, and did up his apartments in red. Edgar Allan Poe couldn’t have written it better.

That being a human being that adds value to society does not require everyone to like you.

by max_ 6y ago

That being a human being that adds value to society does not require everyone to like you.

"Not everyone liked him" is sort of understatement. We can accept and celebrate his contributions without pretending that the dislike for Newton was all about some mild unlikability.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago
I guess I'm in the medium unlikability school. I mean, he seems as unlikable as a significant number of programmers who are not Isaac Newton despite pretensions to equivalent accomplishment. https://inversesquare.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/friday-isaac-newton-blogging-how-mean-was-he/ https://inversesquare.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/friday-isaac-... on edit: meaning some programmers are not quick to make friends, and are not convivial, perhaps due to some neuro-atypical qualities, which I expect was probably the case with Newton. Not that programmers condemn people to death as their jobs generally do not require it.
- watwut 6y ago
  I found the bigger issue to be the stuffing supposedly neutral comitee with friends in dispute with Leibniz, so that they rule your way. Or stealing Flamsteeds work and publishing it under Edmund Halley, Flamsteed’s ennemy name. Destroying last portrait of Robert Hooke cause he was competitor and disagreed with me. These and others are major assholery issues, major ego issues. Not just "little bit neuro-atypical". Typical programmer is much much more ethical then that. Typical programmer is not actually ego maniac Newton was said to be either. That is incidentally my issue. Can't have achievement without significantly downplaying major assholery and narcissist-like behavior. While trying to tar completely innocent uninvolved groups, like neuro-atypical or programmers with that. And we even could avoid whole dicussion here, had people were not insistent on "just a slow to make friends".
  - mlyle 6y ago
    > I found the bigger issue to be the stuffing supposedly neutral comitee with friends in dispute with Leibniz, so that they rule your way. Or stealing Flamsteeds work and publishing it under Edmund Halley, Flamsteed’s ennemy name. It's important to consider the exact context that this happened in. Newton was a jerk, but his contemporaries don't come off smelling like roses, either. Newton had to deal with Hooke stuffing committees and rallying political support, too. This is the way the top of the Royal Society looked in the 17th century. > Destroying last portrait of Robert Hooke cause he was competitor and disagreed with me The current prevailing thought is that this is just myth.
    - watwut 6y ago
      Yeah, but that is exactly part of what we should stop pretending not happened. Prople really don't like to admit - these high powered people and "heroes" were massive unethical assholes. Instead, we take their own word about themselves and about their enemies as gospel. And I think the way we tiptoe around it and refuse to admit dynamics and acts involved is related to why we can't deal with contemporary narcissists either. And what it does is that it is disadvantaging honest people, because they learn about how it really works only after it costed them.
  - bryanrasmussen 6y ago
    >I found the bigger issue to be the stuffing supposedly neutral comitee with friends in dispute with Leibniz, so that they rule your way.... I certainly don't agree with this, but that is because my ethics are informed by a culture in which these things are considered bad. I believe there are cultures in which it is the way things are done, and in my readings of earlier centuries their ethics were not ours. >These and others are major assholery issues, major ego issues. There is a particular relatively famous programmer that I think of when I think 'asshole programmer', back when I used to go to conferences I would see him get up and tear down medium level programmers during their sessions. I don't want to say his name in case I ever have to confront him, as I like to keep my powder dry. I have met other programmers that were just as big jerks, although without this guy's accomplishments. Obviously the programmer in question accomplishments pale in comparison to those of Newton. So I believe if I met Newton I would think - what an asshole!! but I would also somehow feel his contributions to the world did something to make up for his social inadequacies. So I guess I'm saying when I get my time machine after checking kill Hitler off my bucket list I probably won't be going to punch Isaac Newton in the nose for second place. >And we even could avoid whole dicussion here, had people were not insistent on "just a slow to make friends". Yes we could have avoided whole discussion here, if we just agreed with your viewpoint. But I don't agree, and so the discussion evidently needed to be had. on edit: also the committee stuff sounds like a lot of the stuff I read about malfeasance in academia so - again sounds like sort of garden variety asshole there.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  He took more than the average amount of glee in executing counterfeiters, and did up his apartments in red. Edgar Allan Poe couldn’t have written it better.