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My hope is that some centimillionaires and maybe billionaires will convert all their cash to BTC when a wealth tax comes. That's one possible scenario for 100k

by zelly 6y ago

My hope is that some centimillionaires and maybe billionaires will convert all their cash to BTC when a wealth tax comes. That's one possible scenario for 100k or higher.

Temasik 6y ago
look who's mining bitcoin are the ones controlling the network (China)
zwirbl 6y ago
And what would that achieve? Leave financing of national institutions to the lower classes that are already exploited by said centimillionaires?
- zelly 6y ago
  The national institutions you speak of are the ones doing the exploitation. I wouldn't lose any sleep if they'll have to cut back on droning villages or putting poor people in prison because Bitcoin disrupted their funding.
john_moscow 6y ago
Yeah, sure, buying an extremely volatile asset with ~2x price swing within recent couple of years is much less risky than paying 0.4% per year, while actively moving your assets to a different jurisdiction. And the anonymity is guaranteed by design. You just send your billions through a couple of mixers registered to phony IDs and it they magically get obfuscated because hey, other billionaires do that every day as well. /s
- zelly 6y ago
  There's no need for anonymity. I don't understand why that's relevant. > extremely volatile asset with ~2x price swing within recent couple of years Can be hedged with futures. Also S&P 500 had ~1.5x price swings recently and no one cared. The derivatives market has solved the problem of volatility in all markets not just Bitcoin. There are already several billionaires who publicly say they have lots of BTC, prob many more who don't speak up. Jack (8B), Chamath (1B), Paul Tudor Jones (6B), Winklevii (1 B), Peter Thiel (2B). Eventually it will be known as the tax haven coin (already kind of is) and that will be its killer app.
  - sbierwagen 6y ago
    >There's no need for anonymity. I don't understand why that's relevant. A US wealth tax would obviously apply to BTC holdings too.
    - zelly 6y ago
      That would be impossible to enforce or prove. Bitcoin may not be anonymous but it is pseudonymous. The government could make a case that you own this or that public key hash, but that can be litigated till kingdom come since they have no physical evidence. This is assuming our standards of jurisprudence as we know it would still exist in the future where the government attempts to seize coins. I suppose the government could always torture you. Imagine a world where the government tortures citizens to extract Bitcoin because they are forced into a corner by the abandonment of inflationary currency and they have to resort to actually "earning" money. That seems a bit extreme though (just to collect taxes) even for warlord countries let alone the USA. Which is why it wouldn't happen--there wouldn't be a government at all in that scenario, it would just disappear, and humanity would finally be free as it once was.
      - sbierwagen 6y ago
        >That would be impossible to enforce or prove. I am confused. In your view of the world, does KYC/AML not exist at bitcoin exchanges?

by zelly 6y ago

My hope is that some centimillionaires and maybe billionaires will convert all their cash to BTC when a wealth tax comes. That's one possible scenario for 100k or higher.

Temasik 6y ago

look who's mining bitcoin are the ones controlling the network (China)

zwirbl 6y ago

And what would that achieve? Leave financing of national institutions to the lower classes that are already exploited by said centimillionaires?

zelly 6y ago
The national institutions you speak of are the ones doing the exploitation. I wouldn't lose any sleep if they'll have to cut back on droning villages or putting poor people in prison because Bitcoin disrupted their funding.

john_moscow 6y ago

Yeah, sure, buying an extremely volatile asset with ~2x price swing within recent couple of years is much less risky than paying 0.4% per year, while actively moving your assets to a different jurisdiction. And the anonymity is guaranteed by design. You just send your billions through a couple of mixers registered to phony IDs and it they magically get obfuscated because hey, other billionaires do that every day as well. /s

zelly 6y ago
There's no need for anonymity. I don't understand why that's relevant. > extremely volatile asset with ~2x price swing within recent couple of years Can be hedged with futures. Also S&P 500 had ~1.5x price swings recently and no one cared. The derivatives market has solved the problem of volatility in all markets not just Bitcoin. There are already several billionaires who publicly say they have lots of BTC, prob many more who don't speak up. Jack (8B), Chamath (1B), Paul Tudor Jones (6B), Winklevii (1 B), Peter Thiel (2B). Eventually it will be known as the tax haven coin (already kind of is) and that will be its killer app.
- sbierwagen 6y ago
  >There's no need for anonymity. I don't understand why that's relevant. A US wealth tax would obviously apply to BTC holdings too.
  - zelly 6y ago
    That would be impossible to enforce or prove. Bitcoin may not be anonymous but it is pseudonymous. The government could make a case that you own this or that public key hash, but that can be litigated till kingdom come since they have no physical evidence. This is assuming our standards of jurisprudence as we know it would still exist in the future where the government attempts to seize coins. I suppose the government could always torture you. Imagine a world where the government tortures citizens to extract Bitcoin because they are forced into a corner by the abandonment of inflationary currency and they have to resort to actually "earning" money. That seems a bit extreme though (just to collect taxes) even for warlord countries let alone the USA. Which is why it wouldn't happen--there wouldn't be a government at all in that scenario, it would just disappear, and humanity would finally be free as it once was.
    - sbierwagen 6y ago
      >That would be impossible to enforce or prove. I am confused. In your view of the world, does KYC/AML not exist at bitcoin exchanges?