9 ms·

Fighting to Shut Out the Real India

107 points by mjfern 16y ago

ajhai 16y ago
> Not surprisingly, a recent law that forces private schools to reserve 25 percent of the seats for financially disadvantaged children has become controversial http://righttoeducation.in/media/no-objection-25-quota-say-pvt-schools http://righttoeducation.in/media/no-objection-25-quota-say-p...
- bdhe 16y ago
  This is an interesting development. So one of the biggest problems to providing reservations (as they are called) is that the system is so corrupt it is very difficult to ensure that only the needy and deserving get the benefit. There are tons of people who "scam" these schemes by forging documents of income and or caste (which are usually the basis for these reservations). Until the underlying problem is fixed, these schemes, although noble will only be so on paper.
- o_nate 16y ago
  Can you imagine if private schools in the US had to do the same? Currently the top-tier private colleges in the US admit only about 10% of their students from the bottom 50% of the income distribution.
- known 16y ago
  80% of lower caste children in rural India are dropping out of schools before they can complete 10th class because forward caste parents brainwash their children to practice casteism in schools. http://cablesearch.org/?id=05NEWDELHI4761&v http://cablesearch.org/?id=05NEWDELHI4761&v
groby_b 16y ago
So basically, just like the U.S.?
- motvbi 16y ago
  Yes you are right, India and the U.S. have a lot in common. The big difference here in the U.S. is the larger middle class compared to India. The other two big factors are corruption which is much more widespread and the caste system which won't go away anytime soon. Despite all that I believe India has moved in the right direction in the last 20 years. I couldn't imagine how it would have been if not for the reforms of the nineties, which I personally believe has benefited all. Yes the rich have gotten richer but the opportunities that didn't exist before do now for the middle class and the poor. People don't have to depend on the government to provide jobs.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - intended 16y ago
    Yeah, the 90s opening of the market crushed the Indian economy and removed a huge chunk of bad companies. Its good to remember that what stands today, is what was left after being opened up to the big bad world without any assistance. India has built its entire tech base, and IT ability from scratch.
- ubasu 16y ago
  Or rather, the US seems to be on its way to becoming like that. Currently, because of state investment in public infrastructure - civil rights, highways, public schools and universities, regulations etc - over the past century, the middle class enjoyed relative leisure and comfort even as the very rich lived out much more comfortable lives. All that seems to be diminishing because of regulatory capture and the wealth feedback loop created over the last 20-30 years.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    Do you truly believe civil rights are worse today than in the past? More people attend university than ever before. The poor manage to survive quite nicely, and most of them don't work at all. Could you please explain how you believe things are diminishing in more detail? Something I've noticed - when someone says "just like the US" about a nation like India, they've almost certainly never left the US. At most, they've been to the EU, and often think Mexico is the depths of poverty).
Cherian_Abraham 16y ago
Which is why I believe that nothing competes with a Zombie Apocalypse as a social equalizer.
- Cherian_Abraham 16y ago
  In all honesty, that was not meant to be mean. Really, do you think Zombies choose between Rich or Poor? I am an Indian, has lived in US for the past 12 years. Every time I go to India, I am all the more reminded of how the so-called progress has not penetrated in to the lower stratas of the society. I use public transportation every time I am home, not because I cannot afford to shut out the outside world, but I love watching humanity upclose. To ride in a bus along with 60-70 others, people whose sons I might have gone to school with, finding familiar faces in the crowd, eavesdrop on conversations, and for a moment think of their lives, and their dreams. You cant do that while tucked away in the backseat of a Mercedes. Class based social racism is a real problem in India. While trying to catch up with their neighbors, we ignore the ones getting pushed deeper and deeper in to the depths of poverty. Another social equalizer? Education. And the fact that most of its free (regardless of how bad it sometimes can be in India's public schools), I am proud of my country.
  - nkurz 16y ago
    I see you are a fast learner as to what sort of comments are appreciated here. You two comments are like the before and after photos for a fad diet plan. Thanks for clarifying, and welcome to HN!
  - known 16y ago
    Jingoism != Patriotism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility
chailatte 16y ago
A westerner's perspective. Recent trip from bangalore airport to hotel. Started with a clean, hot dry airport exit escorted to your air-conditioned car by hotel driver. Then briefly open fields. Then 30 minutes of red dirt road, with freeway in view barely in construction. With slums all along the street, with metal shacks aptly named 'hotels', with heaps of trash openly laid out and eaten by cows, with homeless kids/adults in bare feet walking along side of roads, with groups of women on their knees dusting the road with brooms. Then briefly comes tons of cars and people walking in between traffic. Tons of cars and people. Some semblance of city began to form. 2 story buildings. Then you're at your 5 star hotel in a 'nice' neighborhood. Across from slums and heaps of garbage and dirt roads and massive traffic and beggars everywhere. This is with no raining, which is usually 8 months out of the year. Recent trip from Mumbai to airport hotel. Armed guards at outside the airport entrance. Taxi drivers mobbing you, trying to grab your bags. Your driver drives on local road as he speaks in his broken english how low this fare is, and you seemed to be stuck in traffic for an eternity what should've taken only 20 minutes. Highway barely constructed, with no workers in sight. Loud motor cars everywhere, no semblance of order. Tons of beggars/slums fills the side of the road. Nearby, restaurants, all with heaps of garbage sitting outside the establishments, attracting only the locals. Some fancy houses appear, but the are lost in the sea of ravage. A woman with a malnourished kid comes to your taxi and knocks on your window and begs. A woman with a bloody stump knocks on your taxi window, but your knowlegable friend says that's fake blood, although the missing hand is real. Then after a while, you arrive in a 5 star hotel, in the most posh neighborhood/city in India, not 10 seconds away from slums/garbage/cows/dirt. And this is with no rain. A 3rd world country, with massive population and corruption and squatter's rights and caste system and religious fervor and terrible weather/land. Same economic progress in 1980s with China, but vastly diverged since. I don't see a way out for India.
- blinkingled 16y ago
  The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment. - Robert M. Hutchins That said I don't think you can look at India with a western "orderly" "everything must make sense" mindset. There is definitely some progress made and it is slow but overall the direction is right. If you look at the scale of the problems India has gotten herself into - population, scarce natural resources, education, corruption - generations have had nothing but apathy towards. But the newer generations are not like that - with increased Internet penetration (my home town, a rural area has 2Mbps always on broadband at cheap prices!), loosening grip of social/religious dogmas and greater interest in public affairs things stand a fair chance towards betterment. To give you a few examples - when I was a kid (20 years ago) the maid that worked for my mom kept having kids year after year. My mom never thought of it until one day I suddenly yelled at her (overlooking the 5 kids of the maid in our backyard) that she had a duty to educate the maid about availability of contraceptives. Back then that was a radical thing for me to talk about such things at my age with my mom. Turned out our maid did not know that these things existed - a year later my mom had her operated at her will of course and the yearly flow of kids stopped! There is certainly more social activism than there was 20 years ago and it is well organized and communicated thanks to improved communication tools - I know of 3 court cases where justice was done due to public activism - a well known politico's son almost got away with murder before public forced a retrial and got the guy back in jail. There is also a crusade against corruption - this time with better results and more public support than ever before. The Govt. was forced to agree with the demands of a long time anti-corruption activist Anna Hazare - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Hazare-wins-anti-corruption-crusade-to-end-fast-tomorrow/articleshow/7916949.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Hazare-wins-anti-co... . Cell phones have made lives better for a lot of poor people - my brother was telling me his paper boy has a BlackBerry and the fruit vendor had a Symbian phone! Point being that it's a huge problem that has so far been dealt with apathy but that is changing fast. As more and more the older gen gets out, as more and more new educated people take matters in their control, it is bound to change more for the better. There are no silver bullets in this - it's an ongoing thing that requires continued public involvement. There is no dearth of talented and well meaning people in India that cannot tackle these issues. It's only for lack of interest that it is languishing - as long as that is on the rise I have my hopes!
amitraman1 16y ago
The scale of poverty is huge. With 1.2 billion, the number of poor and destitute will always be high. This is unfortunate but true. I go to India a lot and do see people locking themselves in from reality. BUT, there are many more who do make an effort to improve the lives of the poor. Anywho, India is India and will always be India. So if you don't like it, don't go there. If you live there and don't like it, leave. Otherwise, take it all in!
yalogin 16y ago
Wonderful article. Its absolutely true. Its a democracy for the world to see but its really corrupt and like the article says the rich can do absolutely anything and get away with it while the poor are stuck and their lives never get any better. There is really no hope for India because the educated middle-class already earn a very decent living and so is happy. In any country the middle class is the catalyst for change and I don't see that happening in India. They are too happy with where India (their own life) is and so they have a fierce sense of nationalism that everything is good. Just go to /r/india on reddit and see how people blindly attack anyone criticising India as ignorant and a wannabe westerner.
- known 16y ago
  It is dummy democracy. 80% Indians are surviving on 20 rupees/day. Do you think these people can vote as per their conscience in elections?
  - amitraman1 16y ago
    Yeah they do!
  - rooney 16y ago
    Yes, they do and they did. Nitish Kumar, the Chief Minister of Bihar(a backward state), was reelected with absolutely majority due to his honest and dedicated efforts during his 1st 5 year tenure. Poor/Rich, people of all castes/religions, voted unanimously for him and his good work.
    - known 16y ago
      I hope you know India is not a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy And people do not elect a Chief Minister in India.
      - rooney 16y ago
        Another wrong and irrelevant comment. I live in India. I am from Bihar. I know how my state works and how my Chief Minister is elected every 5 years. Both the main parties are headed by their respective leaders. Nitish Kumar heads the JDU and there has never been any doubt, before or after the elections, whatsoever, that he was going to be the Chief Minister. Yes, the party can elect anyone as the chief minister but thats purely in theory. In practice, every party throws forward their chief candidate for the Chief Minister post and they have always stuck to it - in every state - over last 60 years of Independence. I suggest you stop trolling HN with your predefined bias against India. Yes, we have problems and we acknowledge it more than anyone else but you should stop trolling.
cooldeal 16y ago
>A luxurious car with an unspeaking driver who works for 12 hours every day at less than $200 a month, Again. Comparing earnings in terms of USD is meaningless. $200/month in India is vastly different from earning the same amount in the US. Sad that even some HN'ers are taken in by this. In comments the other day about outsourcing it was about Indian IT workers working for peanuts. Let me tell you, first compare the prices of services and commodities and then compare salaries and you will see the discrepancy. >Rags-to-riches stories in India are popular but rare. Rare? Well, I don't know the metric that the author is using for 'riches' but it certainly is not rare.
- known 16y ago
  Let me reveal a little secret. 80% Indians are willing to migrate to USA for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility at $200/month salary.
  - rjhackin 16y ago
    I don't think so, can you prove your little secret and what social reasons would that be? just curious to know.
    - known 16y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility
      - rjhackin 16y ago
        The only place where 'India' was mentioned for the link you provided is at the last section towards the end of the page. It just talks about technological advances and how people are related to that, but it doesn't say people are migrating countries because of that.
        known 16y ago
sudomanas 16y ago
Typical liberal media crap
hariis 16y ago
The article gives several examples of how things have changed from a few decades ago. Likewise, a few decades from now, things would be different as well. This too shall pass.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
visava 16y ago
I was once told that if Hell is here then Heaven is also here. The Heaven is hidden from material eyes.300 - 1000 years back it was present even in the material form.But it attracted lot of crusaders. So now the heaven is hidden by poverty and slums.The heaven is in the form of spiritual knowledge which can lead you to self relaization.Only people actively on the spiritual path can relate to this.
ankeshk 16y ago
Here is a snapshot of India that is helpful to folks not living here. The 2011 census just came out. What is the literacy rate? 75% only. That means 25% Indians can't read or write. Thats 300 million Indians that can't read and write. 300 million. Thats a big number. If you focus on that number, you will think that India is in a bad state. Doing pathetic. No hope. But you need to go back a bit. In the last 10 years alone (from 2001 to 2011), the number of literate people in India has risen from 650 million to 900 million. That is a huge jump. A shift of 250 million people to literacy in 10 years. That is India. Statistically - when compared to other countries - seems to be in the dumps. But improving at a rate that is crazy to comprehend. India is like that dorky adolescent kid with warts and pimples popping up all over the face. Give her 20-30 more years.
- zeteo 16y ago
  >India is like that dorky adolescent kid with warts and pimples popping up all over the face. Give her 20-30 more years. Now that's a poorly chosen metaphor! What will the adolescent girl do in 20-30 years, replace pimples with wrinkles?!
  - akgerber 16y ago
    Look like a dignified adult with some grey hairs & some worthwhile life experiences behind her, given that she is always growing & learning?
known 16y ago
It is quite easy to understand Indians and Indian society. If you meet anybody from India, ask him "what is your caste?"
- chakde 16y ago
  Answer: Probabaly higher than yours because only only low class people ask crass questions. Here's the book to actually understand India:- "Late victorian holocausts and the making of the third world". http://www.amazon.com/Late-Victorian-Holocausts-Famines-Making/dp/1859843824/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302338147&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Late-Victorian-Holocausts-Famines-Maki... As Nehru and others had observed, poverty in India is highly correlated with the length of British rule in that part of India, Bengal being the poorest and Punjab the richest. This is actually true of the world in general - compare Africa with Japan - prosperity is highly correleted with the colonial experience a country had. Caste is almost irrelevant - the Gini coefficient which measures inequality is much higher in the US than in India. India which was 25% of the world's economy in 1800 was essentially crushed by the British to make way for their industrialization via a captive market. Internal trade in India was crushed by internal tariffs. Railroads which had a positive network effect in the US, had the opposite (destructive) network effect in India killing its manufacturing base and driving millions to unemployment and dependance on agricultural land which lead to the widespread poverty you see today.
  - known 16y ago
    One of the most corruption nations in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India 836 million people live on 20 rupees a day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India Pakistan is a better nation to do business than India & China http://www.doingbusiness.org/economyrankings/ http://www.doingbusiness.org/economyrankings/ Indians among most corrupt while doing business abroad http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/sep/24/indians-among-most-corrupt-while-doing-business-abroad.htm http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/sep/24/indians-among-... Economic mobility != Social mobility
  - known 16y ago
known 16y ago
For a Western it is quite easy to understand Indians and Indian society. If you meet anybody from India, ask him "What Is Your Caste?"
known 16y ago
This is one of best writeup on current life in India.

107 points by mjfern 16y ago

ajhai 16y ago

> Not surprisingly, a recent law that forces private schools to reserve 25 percent of the seats for financially disadvantaged children has become controversial http://righttoeducation.in/media/no-objection-25-quota-say-pvt-schools http://righttoeducation.in/media/no-objection-25-quota-say-p...

bdhe 16y ago
This is an interesting development. So one of the biggest problems to providing reservations (as they are called) is that the system is so corrupt it is very difficult to ensure that only the needy and deserving get the benefit. There are tons of people who "scam" these schemes by forging documents of income and or caste (which are usually the basis for these reservations). Until the underlying problem is fixed, these schemes, although noble will only be so on paper.
o_nate 16y ago
Can you imagine if private schools in the US had to do the same? Currently the top-tier private colleges in the US admit only about 10% of their students from the bottom 50% of the income distribution.
known 16y ago
80% of lower caste children in rural India are dropping out of schools before they can complete 10th class because forward caste parents brainwash their children to practice casteism in schools. http://cablesearch.org/?id=05NEWDELHI4761&v http://cablesearch.org/?id=05NEWDELHI4761&v

groby_b 16y ago

So basically, just like the U.S.?

motvbi 16y ago
Yes you are right, India and the U.S. have a lot in common. The big difference here in the U.S. is the larger middle class compared to India. The other two big factors are corruption which is much more widespread and the caste system which won't go away anytime soon. Despite all that I believe India has moved in the right direction in the last 20 years. I couldn't imagine how it would have been if not for the reforms of the nineties, which I personally believe has benefited all. Yes the rich have gotten richer but the opportunities that didn't exist before do now for the middle class and the poor. People don't have to depend on the government to provide jobs.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- intended 16y ago
  Yeah, the 90s opening of the market crushed the Indian economy and removed a huge chunk of bad companies. Its good to remember that what stands today, is what was left after being opened up to the big bad world without any assistance. India has built its entire tech base, and IT ability from scratch.
ubasu 16y ago
Or rather, the US seems to be on its way to becoming like that. Currently, because of state investment in public infrastructure - civil rights, highways, public schools and universities, regulations etc - over the past century, the middle class enjoyed relative leisure and comfort even as the very rich lived out much more comfortable lives. All that seems to be diminishing because of regulatory capture and the wealth feedback loop created over the last 20-30 years.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Do you truly believe civil rights are worse today than in the past? More people attend university than ever before. The poor manage to survive quite nicely, and most of them don't work at all. Could you please explain how you believe things are diminishing in more detail? Something I've noticed - when someone says "just like the US" about a nation like India, they've almost certainly never left the US. At most, they've been to the EU, and often think Mexico is the depths of poverty).

Cherian_Abraham 16y ago

Which is why I believe that nothing competes with a Zombie Apocalypse as a social equalizer.

Cherian_Abraham 16y ago
In all honesty, that was not meant to be mean. Really, do you think Zombies choose between Rich or Poor? I am an Indian, has lived in US for the past 12 years. Every time I go to India, I am all the more reminded of how the so-called progress has not penetrated in to the lower stratas of the society. I use public transportation every time I am home, not because I cannot afford to shut out the outside world, but I love watching humanity upclose. To ride in a bus along with 60-70 others, people whose sons I might have gone to school with, finding familiar faces in the crowd, eavesdrop on conversations, and for a moment think of their lives, and their dreams. You cant do that while tucked away in the backseat of a Mercedes. Class based social racism is a real problem in India. While trying to catch up with their neighbors, we ignore the ones getting pushed deeper and deeper in to the depths of poverty. Another social equalizer? Education. And the fact that most of its free (regardless of how bad it sometimes can be in India's public schools), I am proud of my country.
- nkurz 16y ago
  I see you are a fast learner as to what sort of comments are appreciated here. You two comments are like the before and after photos for a fad diet plan. Thanks for clarifying, and welcome to HN!
- known 16y ago
  Jingoism != Patriotism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

chailatte 16y ago

A westerner's perspective. Recent trip from bangalore airport to hotel. Started with a clean, hot dry airport exit escorted to your air-conditioned car by hotel driver. Then briefly open fields. Then 30 minutes of red dirt road, with freeway in view barely in construction. With slums all along the street, with metal shacks aptly named 'hotels', with heaps of trash openly laid out and eaten by cows, with homeless kids/adults in bare feet walking along side of roads, with groups of women on their knees dusting the road with brooms. Then briefly comes tons of cars and people walking in between traffic. Tons of cars and people. Some semblance of city began to form. 2 story buildings. Then you're at your 5 star hotel in a 'nice' neighborhood. Across from slums and heaps of garbage and dirt roads and massive traffic and beggars everywhere. This is with no raining, which is usually 8 months out of the year. Recent trip from Mumbai to airport hotel. Armed guards at outside the airport entrance. Taxi drivers mobbing you, trying to grab your bags. Your driver drives on local road as he speaks in his broken english how low this fare is, and you seemed to be stuck in traffic for an eternity what should've taken only 20 minutes. Highway barely constructed, with no workers in sight. Loud motor cars everywhere, no semblance of order. Tons of beggars/slums fills the side of the road. Nearby, restaurants, all with heaps of garbage sitting outside the establishments, attracting only the locals. Some fancy houses appear, but the are lost in the sea of ravage. A woman with a malnourished kid comes to your taxi and knocks on your window and begs. A woman with a bloody stump knocks on your taxi window, but your knowlegable friend says that's fake blood, although the missing hand is real. Then after a while, you arrive in a 5 star hotel, in the most posh neighborhood/city in India, not 10 seconds away from slums/garbage/cows/dirt. And this is with no rain. A 3rd world country, with massive population and corruption and squatter's rights and caste system and religious fervor and terrible weather/land. Same economic progress in 1980s with China, but vastly diverged since. I don't see a way out for India.

blinkingled 16y ago
The death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment. - Robert M. Hutchins That said I don't think you can look at India with a western "orderly" "everything must make sense" mindset. There is definitely some progress made and it is slow but overall the direction is right. If you look at the scale of the problems India has gotten herself into - population, scarce natural resources, education, corruption - generations have had nothing but apathy towards. But the newer generations are not like that - with increased Internet penetration (my home town, a rural area has 2Mbps always on broadband at cheap prices!), loosening grip of social/religious dogmas and greater interest in public affairs things stand a fair chance towards betterment. To give you a few examples - when I was a kid (20 years ago) the maid that worked for my mom kept having kids year after year. My mom never thought of it until one day I suddenly yelled at her (overlooking the 5 kids of the maid in our backyard) that she had a duty to educate the maid about availability of contraceptives. Back then that was a radical thing for me to talk about such things at my age with my mom. Turned out our maid did not know that these things existed - a year later my mom had her operated at her will of course and the yearly flow of kids stopped! There is certainly more social activism than there was 20 years ago and it is well organized and communicated thanks to improved communication tools - I know of 3 court cases where justice was done due to public activism - a well known politico's son almost got away with murder before public forced a retrial and got the guy back in jail. There is also a crusade against corruption - this time with better results and more public support than ever before. The Govt. was forced to agree with the demands of a long time anti-corruption activist Anna Hazare - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Hazare-wins-anti-corruption-crusade-to-end-fast-tomorrow/articleshow/7916949.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Hazare-wins-anti-co... . Cell phones have made lives better for a lot of poor people - my brother was telling me his paper boy has a BlackBerry and the fruit vendor had a Symbian phone! Point being that it's a huge problem that has so far been dealt with apathy but that is changing fast. As more and more the older gen gets out, as more and more new educated people take matters in their control, it is bound to change more for the better. There are no silver bullets in this - it's an ongoing thing that requires continued public involvement. There is no dearth of talented and well meaning people in India that cannot tackle these issues. It's only for lack of interest that it is languishing - as long as that is on the rise I have my hopes!

amitraman1 16y ago

The scale of poverty is huge. With 1.2 billion, the number of poor and destitute will always be high. This is unfortunate but true. I go to India a lot and do see people locking themselves in from reality. BUT, there are many more who do make an effort to improve the lives of the poor. Anywho, India is India and will always be India. So if you don't like it, don't go there. If you live there and don't like it, leave. Otherwise, take it all in!

yalogin 16y ago

Wonderful article. Its absolutely true. Its a democracy for the world to see but its really corrupt and like the article says the rich can do absolutely anything and get away with it while the poor are stuck and their lives never get any better. There is really no hope for India because the educated middle-class already earn a very decent living and so is happy. In any country the middle class is the catalyst for change and I don't see that happening in India. They are too happy with where India (their own life) is and so they have a fierce sense of nationalism that everything is good. Just go to /r/india on reddit and see how people blindly attack anyone criticising India as ignorant and a wannabe westerner.

known 16y ago
It is dummy democracy. 80% Indians are surviving on 20 rupees/day. Do you think these people can vote as per their conscience in elections?
- amitraman1 16y ago
  Yeah they do!
- rooney 16y ago
  Yes, they do and they did. Nitish Kumar, the Chief Minister of Bihar(a backward state), was reelected with absolutely majority due to his honest and dedicated efforts during his 1st 5 year tenure. Poor/Rich, people of all castes/religions, voted unanimously for him and his good work.
  - known 16y ago
    I hope you know India is not a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy And people do not elect a Chief Minister in India.
    - rooney 16y ago
      Another wrong and irrelevant comment. I live in India. I am from Bihar. I know how my state works and how my Chief Minister is elected every 5 years. Both the main parties are headed by their respective leaders. Nitish Kumar heads the JDU and there has never been any doubt, before or after the elections, whatsoever, that he was going to be the Chief Minister. Yes, the party can elect anyone as the chief minister but thats purely in theory. In practice, every party throws forward their chief candidate for the Chief Minister post and they have always stuck to it - in every state - over last 60 years of Independence. I suggest you stop trolling HN with your predefined bias against India. Yes, we have problems and we acknowledge it more than anyone else but you should stop trolling.

cooldeal 16y ago

>A luxurious car with an unspeaking driver who works for 12 hours every day at less than $200 a month, Again. Comparing earnings in terms of USD is meaningless. $200/month in India is vastly different from earning the same amount in the US. Sad that even some HN'ers are taken in by this. In comments the other day about outsourcing it was about Indian IT workers working for peanuts. Let me tell you, first compare the prices of services and commodities and then compare salaries and you will see the discrepancy. >Rags-to-riches stories in India are popular but rare. Rare? Well, I don't know the metric that the author is using for 'riches' but it certainly is not rare.

known 16y ago
Let me reveal a little secret. 80% Indians are willing to migrate to USA for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility at $200/month salary.
- rjhackin 16y ago
  I don't think so, can you prove your little secret and what social reasons would that be? just curious to know.
  - known 16y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility
    - rjhackin 16y ago
      The only place where 'India' was mentioned for the link you provided is at the last section towards the end of the page. It just talks about technological advances and how people are related to that, but it doesn't say people are migrating countries because of that.
      - known 16y ago

sudomanas 16y ago

Typical liberal media crap

hariis 16y ago

The article gives several examples of how things have changed from a few decades ago. Likewise, a few decades from now, things would be different as well. This too shall pass.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

visava 16y ago

I was once told that if Hell is here then Heaven is also here. The Heaven is hidden from material eyes.300 - 1000 years back it was present even in the material form.But it attracted lot of crusaders. So now the heaven is hidden by poverty and slums.The heaven is in the form of spiritual knowledge which can lead you to self relaization.Only people actively on the spiritual path can relate to this.

ankeshk 16y ago

Here is a snapshot of India that is helpful to folks not living here. The 2011 census just came out. What is the literacy rate? 75% only. That means 25% Indians can't read or write. Thats 300 million Indians that can't read and write. 300 million. Thats a big number. If you focus on that number, you will think that India is in a bad state. Doing pathetic. No hope. But you need to go back a bit. In the last 10 years alone (from 2001 to 2011), the number of literate people in India has risen from 650 million to 900 million. That is a huge jump. A shift of 250 million people to literacy in 10 years. That is India. Statistically - when compared to other countries - seems to be in the dumps. But improving at a rate that is crazy to comprehend. India is like that dorky adolescent kid with warts and pimples popping up all over the face. Give her 20-30 more years.

zeteo 16y ago
>India is like that dorky adolescent kid with warts and pimples popping up all over the face. Give her 20-30 more years. Now that's a poorly chosen metaphor! What will the adolescent girl do in 20-30 years, replace pimples with wrinkles?!
- akgerber 16y ago
  Look like a dignified adult with some grey hairs & some worthwhile life experiences behind her, given that she is always growing & learning?

known 16y ago

It is quite easy to understand Indians and Indian society. If you meet anybody from India, ask him "what is your caste?"

chakde 16y ago
Answer: Probabaly higher than yours because only only low class people ask crass questions. Here's the book to actually understand India:- "Late victorian holocausts and the making of the third world". http://www.amazon.com/Late-Victorian-Holocausts-Famines-Making/dp/1859843824/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1302338147&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Late-Victorian-Holocausts-Famines-Maki... As Nehru and others had observed, poverty in India is highly correlated with the length of British rule in that part of India, Bengal being the poorest and Punjab the richest. This is actually true of the world in general - compare Africa with Japan - prosperity is highly correleted with the colonial experience a country had. Caste is almost irrelevant - the Gini coefficient which measures inequality is much higher in the US than in India. India which was 25% of the world's economy in 1800 was essentially crushed by the British to make way for their industrialization via a captive market. Internal trade in India was crushed by internal tariffs. Railroads which had a positive network effect in the US, had the opposite (destructive) network effect in India killing its manufacturing base and driving millions to unemployment and dependance on agricultural land which lead to the widespread poverty you see today.
- known 16y ago
  One of the most corruption nations in the world http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_India 836 million people live on 20 rupees a day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India Pakistan is a better nation to do business than India & China http://www.doingbusiness.org/economyrankings/ http://www.doingbusiness.org/economyrankings/ Indians among most corrupt while doing business abroad http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/sep/24/indians-among-most-corrupt-while-doing-business-abroad.htm http://business.rediff.com/report/2009/sep/24/indians-among-... Economic mobility != Social mobility
- known 16y ago

known 16y ago

For a Western it is quite easy to understand Indians and Indian society. If you meet anybody from India, ask him "What Is Your Caste?"

known 16y ago

This is one of best writeup on current life in India.