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Can someone from the US please explain why would police surveil a union organizer? How is s/he a threat to the public?

by moltar 6y ago

brendawalsh 6y ago
I imagine somebody is ‘friends’ with the police and asks for help identifying who the organizer is associating with, so they can fire that person. It is a PTZ camera, so I am guessing they are trying to grab license plates. There is definitely a gray area between private detective work and police assisting with a favor.
syshum 6y ago
Do you want the conspiracy or official version? It is probable it has nothing to do with politics and the individuals (or people in the area) in question are suspects in a standard criminal activity. It is also possible it is political. The lack of transparency in government / police operations leads to this kind of speculation. The massive lose of trust in police (rightfully so) over the past few years also has eroded any "benefit of the doubt" people may have given them in the past Unless an arrest is made or a lawsuit files we will probably never know the real truth.
kevingadd 6y ago
In the earlier days of the US one of the police department's responsibilities was breaking strikes, often by injuring or murdering union members: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States#Union_busting_with_police_and_military_force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_th...
- gorgoiler 6y ago
  At least as far back as 2009 Pinkertons still existed. They were in the business of being contracted by major US companies to perform background checks on staff who needed high security clearance.
  - duskwuff 6y ago
    The Pinkerton Agency still exists now. Unlike Blackwater/Xe/Academi/whatever, they haven't even dropped the name. One gets the sense that they don't mind the associations the name's gathered.
    - hansjorg 6y ago
      They're now a subsidiary of Securitas AB, a Swedish company. Securitas is known for having their people wearing uniforms that are designed to be confused with local law enforcement and for heavy lobbying for privatisation of the prison industry in the Nordics. A great fit for Pinkerton.
  - gorgoiler 6y ago
    At least as recently as 2009, ahem.
- aasasd 6y ago
  Afaik those days ended only about a hundred years ago, perhaps after the Great Depression. Some say that things changed because the USSR showed what happens when workers seriously organize, plus Europe and Central/South America were too curious about socialism.
frabbit 6y ago
Why do you think it is just the USA? Are you genuinely surprised or this just a baity-get-things-rolling type of question? Just off the top of my head this is one of the most famous (exposed) examples in the UK https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47457330 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47457330 Police were created explicitly to help with suppressing the threat that comes from anyone that earns their living by a wage from others.
- Dahoon 6y ago
  Not just the US, but the US and those that is trying hard to be just as bad (like the UK) are not like the rest of the western world. For example a union in the US versus one in Scandinavia is like comparing apples to ...something not even a fruit. The US unions are not real unions and haven't normalised since the war against the police and their mob ties.
- peteretep 6y ago
  A better link to the UK story: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43507728 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43507728 but note in the UK this was a major scandal, £250m of compensation paid, etc, rather than business as normal
  - geoffpado 6y ago
    I mean… the fact that it’s in the news and notable enough that it was voted to the front page of HN suggests that it isn’t exactly “business as usual” in the US, either. Your link suggests it took six years for the Metropolitan Police to admit wrongdoing. This camera was found last week. Let’s give it time to actually blow up to “scandal” proportions.
    - jacobush 6y ago
      I don’t know man, I hope this blows up to scandal levels in this case, but I have been hearing about these power pole cameras for a long time.
- moltar 6y ago
Natsu 6y ago
The Twitter with the pics of this claims this is related to Operation Legend, so presumably they're investigating something related to that - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Legend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Legend
- Dahoon 6y ago
  So an operation against people who unite and protest legally and who are then beaten, killed or hunted like cattle? What better place than a union leader to catch "bad guys".
jeffbee 6y ago
The Memphis Police Department has been under a federal consent decree for over 40 years. Spying on labor and civil rights groups is just part of their act. https://www.aclu-tn.org/blacklisted-memphis-police-surveillance-and-kendrick-v-chandler-a-timeline/ https://www.aclu-tn.org/blacklisted-memphis-police-surveilla...
- gorgoiler 6y ago
  To be clear, the 1978 federal consent decree is essentially the federal government telling Memphis PD to quit their spying bullshit “or else”, and yet they’ve continued this surveillance anyway, over the years?
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Because the police's primary revenue stream is taxpayer money and therefore they are very interested in anyone who may affect political change for any reason.

Can someone from the US please explain why would police surveil a union organizer? How is s/he a threat to the public?

by moltar 6y ago

Can someone from the US please explain why would police surveil a union organizer? How is s/he a threat to the public?

I imagine somebody is ‘friends’ with the police and asks for help identifying who the organizer is associating with, so they can fire that person. It is a PTZ camera, so I am guessing they are trying to grab license plates. There is definitely a gray area between private detective work and police assisting with a favor.

syshum 6y ago

Do you want the conspiracy or official version? It is probable it has nothing to do with politics and the individuals (or people in the area) in question are suspects in a standard criminal activity. It is also possible it is political. The lack of transparency in government / police operations leads to this kind of speculation. The massive lose of trust in police (rightfully so) over the past few years also has eroded any "benefit of the doubt" people may have given them in the past Unless an arrest is made or a lawsuit files we will probably never know the real truth.

kevingadd 6y ago

In the earlier days of the US one of the police department's responsibilities was breaking strikes, often by injuring or murdering union members: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States#Union_busting_with_police_and_military_force https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_th...

gorgoiler 6y ago
At least as far back as 2009 Pinkertons still existed. They were in the business of being contracted by major US companies to perform background checks on staff who needed high security clearance.
- duskwuff 6y ago
  The Pinkerton Agency still exists now. Unlike Blackwater/Xe/Academi/whatever, they haven't even dropped the name. One gets the sense that they don't mind the associations the name's gathered.
  - hansjorg 6y ago
    They're now a subsidiary of Securitas AB, a Swedish company. Securitas is known for having their people wearing uniforms that are designed to be confused with local law enforcement and for heavy lobbying for privatisation of the prison industry in the Nordics. A great fit for Pinkerton.
- gorgoiler 6y ago
  At least as recently as 2009, ahem.
aasasd 6y ago
Afaik those days ended only about a hundred years ago, perhaps after the Great Depression. Some say that things changed because the USSR showed what happens when workers seriously organize, plus Europe and Central/South America were too curious about socialism.

frabbit 6y ago

Why do you think it is just the USA? Are you genuinely surprised or this just a baity-get-things-rolling type of question? Just off the top of my head this is one of the most famous (exposed) examples in the UK https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47457330 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47457330 Police were created explicitly to help with suppressing the threat that comes from anyone that earns their living by a wage from others.

Dahoon 6y ago
Not just the US, but the US and those that is trying hard to be just as bad (like the UK) are not like the rest of the western world. For example a union in the US versus one in Scandinavia is like comparing apples to ...something not even a fruit. The US unions are not real unions and haven't normalised since the war against the police and their mob ties.
peteretep 6y ago
A better link to the UK story: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43507728 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43507728 but note in the UK this was a major scandal, £250m of compensation paid, etc, rather than business as normal
- geoffpado 6y ago
  I mean… the fact that it’s in the news and notable enough that it was voted to the front page of HN suggests that it isn’t exactly “business as usual” in the US, either. Your link suggests it took six years for the Metropolitan Police to admit wrongdoing. This camera was found last week. Let’s give it time to actually blow up to “scandal” proportions.
  - jacobush 6y ago
    I don’t know man, I hope this blows up to scandal levels in this case, but I have been hearing about these power pole cameras for a long time.
moltar 6y ago

Natsu 6y ago

The Twitter with the pics of this claims this is related to Operation Legend, so presumably they're investigating something related to that - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Legend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Legend

Dahoon 6y ago
So an operation against people who unite and protest legally and who are then beaten, killed or hunted like cattle? What better place than a union leader to catch "bad guys".

jeffbee 6y ago

The Memphis Police Department has been under a federal consent decree for over 40 years. Spying on labor and civil rights groups is just part of their act. https://www.aclu-tn.org/blacklisted-memphis-police-surveillance-and-kendrick-v-chandler-a-timeline/ https://www.aclu-tn.org/blacklisted-memphis-police-surveilla...

gorgoiler 6y ago
To be clear, the 1978 federal consent decree is essentially the federal government telling Memphis PD to quit their spying bullshit “or else”, and yet they’ve continued this surveillance anyway, over the years?

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

Because the police's primary revenue stream is taxpayer money and therefore they are very interested in anyone who may affect political change for any reason.