4 ms·

Apple enforce the rules capriciously, and change them on a whim. Almost certainly, they allow Spotify and the NYT because iOS customers and potential customers

Apple enforce the rules capriciously, and change them on a whim. Almost certainly, they allow Spotify and the NYT because iOS customers and potential customers would object too much if they were removed from the store. A well as the 30% tax making all apps worse in quality by removing money from development, the unpredictableness and unfairness destroys many businesses before they even start.

scarface74 6y ago
So even though I pointed to two well known cases where that isn’t true, you’re getting your information from where exactly? Yes and the 30% cut is moving money from poor Epic’s pockets so they can’t sell virtual coins for dance moves. Most money on the App Store comes from whales playing pay to win games like Candy Crush. You have no proof - not in the rules that are published or anywhere else. You can simply go to the App Store and go to NYT website to show that you are wrong.
- frabcus 6y ago
  You're right, I don't have tangible evidence of specifically disallowing charging different amounts on different platforms. It's possible I've conflated that with not being able to call out the charge difference (e.g. by using the words "Apple Tax" on the payment page), and not being able to link to other payment methods (e.g. on web), which massively devalue any benefit from charging more. I agree that Epic are in it to line already rich pockets, and extra money wouldn't improve their service. There are lots of smaller developers where an extra ~42% revenue would make a huge difference, and charging more doesn't work as the customer is price sensitive.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Is there a retailer that allows a company to label the wholesale vs retail price? Is there a retailer that allows a company to sell a product in their store and tell them that they can get it cheaper somewhere else? Can a game retailer sell something at GameStop while advertising they can get at a lower price online in GameStop? Where exactly are these indy developers? The time of most indy developers making it big on mobile left the train a decade ago. They have been drowned out by the makers of Candy Crush and Clash of Clans. We already saw the race to the bottom after mobile became popular. Do you really think the bottom just wouldn’t get lower? I remember back in 2008, when the mobile gold rush started and indy developers of popular apps were publishing how much they were making. I was making more working in corporate America writing field service apps for ruggedized Windows CE devices
- SyneRyder 6y ago
  The rule was 11.13 of the Apple App Store Review Guidelines: 11.13 Apps can read or play approved content (magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, video) that is sold outside of the app, for which Apple will not receive any portion of the revenues, provided that the same content is also offered in the app using IAP at the same price or less than it is offered outside the app. This applies to both purchased content and subscriptions. The same-price rule was revoked in 2011 after legal challenges from newspapers & magazines. It was replaced with a rule that doesn't allow linking to any websites within the app. https://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-reverses-course-on-in-app-subscriptions/ https://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-reverses-course-o... As of 2020, rule 3.1.3(a) also does not allow you to recommend in any public business communications using payment methods other than Apple: "you agree not to directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods are not designed to discourage use of in-app purchase." https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
  - scarface74 6y ago
    So we are talking about something that has happened since 2011. Let’s do a thought experiment. Try selling something in a Best Buy and asking them will they allow you to publicize in Best Buy that you can get a lower price if you buy from their website. How do you think that will work out?
    - SyneRyder 6y ago
      Perfectly fine. This is why the MSRP - Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price - or RRP, Recommended Retail Price, is common practice. The manufacturer publishes the suggested price on the box itself, so if a store tries overpricing by 30%, you know just by looking at the box that you're paying more than you should and should shop elsewhere. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manufacturers-suggested-retail-price-msrp.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manufacturers-suggested...
      - scarface74 6y ago
- AsyncAwait 6y ago
  Spotify, Netflix etc. are in a special category called "reader apps".
  - scarface74 6y ago
    You’re conflating separate issues. Controversy #1: some apps are allowed to be in the store and not have in app subscriptions but aren’t allowed to say how you subscribe - Netflix and Spotify come under the “reader apps” exemption and Hey didn’t. Controversy #2: Epic isn’t allowed to have in app purchases that bypass the App Store. Non Controversy #1: there is no rule against having different prices in an outside of the store. This has nothing to do with “reader apps”. All of the loss of fake internet points doesn’t make a provable fact incorrect. Go to App Store and look at NYT price. Then go to the website, the price is different.
    - AsyncAwait 6y ago
      I know you can have different prices. The problem is that the WordPress app was for all WP blogs, including self-hosted. Apple blocked them unless they add an IAP for .com services, but that's not really required. Spotify can stay in the AppStore, presumably without having to offer an IAP, whereas apparently WordPress cannot, including for self-hosted blogs? That's what I am getting at here.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

scarface74 6y ago

So even though I pointed to two well known cases where that isn’t true, you’re getting your information from where exactly? Yes and the 30% cut is moving money from poor Epic’s pockets so they can’t sell virtual coins for dance moves. Most money on the App Store comes from whales playing pay to win games like Candy Crush. You have no proof - not in the rules that are published or anywhere else. You can simply go to the App Store and go to NYT website to show that you are wrong.

frabcus 6y ago
You're right, I don't have tangible evidence of specifically disallowing charging different amounts on different platforms. It's possible I've conflated that with not being able to call out the charge difference (e.g. by using the words "Apple Tax" on the payment page), and not being able to link to other payment methods (e.g. on web), which massively devalue any benefit from charging more. I agree that Epic are in it to line already rich pockets, and extra money wouldn't improve their service. There are lots of smaller developers where an extra ~42% revenue would make a huge difference, and charging more doesn't work as the customer is price sensitive.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Is there a retailer that allows a company to label the wholesale vs retail price? Is there a retailer that allows a company to sell a product in their store and tell them that they can get it cheaper somewhere else? Can a game retailer sell something at GameStop while advertising they can get at a lower price online in GameStop? Where exactly are these indy developers? The time of most indy developers making it big on mobile left the train a decade ago. They have been drowned out by the makers of Candy Crush and Clash of Clans. We already saw the race to the bottom after mobile became popular. Do you really think the bottom just wouldn’t get lower? I remember back in 2008, when the mobile gold rush started and indy developers of popular apps were publishing how much they were making. I was making more working in corporate America writing field service apps for ruggedized Windows CE devices
SyneRyder 6y ago
The rule was 11.13 of the Apple App Store Review Guidelines: 11.13 Apps can read or play approved content (magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, video) that is sold outside of the app, for which Apple will not receive any portion of the revenues, provided that the same content is also offered in the app using IAP at the same price or less than it is offered outside the app. This applies to both purchased content and subscriptions. The same-price rule was revoked in 2011 after legal challenges from newspapers & magazines. It was replaced with a rule that doesn't allow linking to any websites within the app. https://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-reverses-course-on-in-app-subscriptions/ https://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-reverses-course-o... As of 2020, rule 3.1.3(a) also does not allow you to recommend in any public business communications using payment methods other than Apple: "you agree not to directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase, and your general communications about other purchasing methods are not designed to discourage use of in-app purchase." https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
- scarface74 6y ago
  So we are talking about something that has happened since 2011. Let’s do a thought experiment. Try selling something in a Best Buy and asking them will they allow you to publicize in Best Buy that you can get a lower price if you buy from their website. How do you think that will work out?
  - SyneRyder 6y ago
    Perfectly fine. This is why the MSRP - Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price - or RRP, Recommended Retail Price, is common practice. The manufacturer publishes the suggested price on the box itself, so if a store tries overpricing by 30%, you know just by looking at the box that you're paying more than you should and should shop elsewhere. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manufacturers-suggested-retail-price-msrp.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/manufacturers-suggested...
    - scarface74 6y ago
AsyncAwait 6y ago
Spotify, Netflix etc. are in a special category called "reader apps".
- scarface74 6y ago
  You’re conflating separate issues. Controversy #1: some apps are allowed to be in the store and not have in app subscriptions but aren’t allowed to say how you subscribe - Netflix and Spotify come under the “reader apps” exemption and Hey didn’t. Controversy #2: Epic isn’t allowed to have in app purchases that bypass the App Store. Non Controversy #1: there is no rule against having different prices in an outside of the store. This has nothing to do with “reader apps”. All of the loss of fake internet points doesn’t make a provable fact incorrect. Go to App Store and look at NYT price. Then go to the website, the price is different.
  - AsyncAwait 6y ago
    I know you can have different prices. The problem is that the WordPress app was for all WP blogs, including self-hosted. Apple blocked them unless they add an IAP for .com services, but that's not really required. Spotify can stay in the AppStore, presumably without having to offer an IAP, whereas apparently WordPress cannot, including for self-hosted blogs? That's what I am getting at here.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]