5 ms·

> I am very privacy, open-source, freedom orientated I like to think I am as well. How do you balance this when moving from Apple to Android, where Apple (seem

> I am very privacy, open-source, freedom orientated I like to think I am as well. How do you balance this when moving from Apple to Android, where Apple (seems) to be much more privacy-focused and basically at zero for open-source/freedom, where Android is basically the reverse? I think there are ways to make it better (custom ROM, alternative app stores), but you give up a lot of functionality (Play Store, Google Pay, etc.), and I'm not sure you can entirely eliminate all concerns. I like the freedom of Android, so as long as I understand what I'm giving up privacy-wise I don't mind the trade-off. I have at least tried to make it a little harder for Google, using DuckDuckGo, but I'm guessing it only makes a dent with the other massive amounts of data they can still glean from the various services running on the phone, Gmail, Maps, etc.

edoceo 6y ago
Not OP but, I'm on a Pixel for the "bloat" free Android experience. I don't install any apps, I do all webservices through Firefox, DDG and have uBO enabled. I'm only moderately privacy concerned and I fell like this is an ok balance. Seems like every app on either platform comes with some problematic BS.
- nullwarp 6y ago
  I use my phone the same way, no apps and run GrapheneOS - no problems.
  - tomcam 6y ago
    What brand/model?
    - searchableguy 6y ago
      Most likely pixel as those are the only ones with official support for graphene.
JeremyNT 6y ago
You can use stock Android without a Google account. You can avoid the Google Play Store, disable most google default provided apps, and sideload apps of your choosing. You can use a browser (such as Firefox) that the phone vendor has no control over. You can even install an alternate app store. This sounds like what the parent is doing, and it's the best mainstream experience for anybody looking for a privacy and security oriented mobile device (while still actually having control of their own device). With a Pixel phone, you can go further, unlock the bootloader and install a third party OS that does not even include Google services installed at all. Of course, on the other hand, you could sign up for every google service, load all their apps, and consent to all their tracking, in which case you give away everything. Google makes it very easy to do this. But either way, it's at least your choice. Unlike Apple, which thinks it certainly knows best what code should be allowed on your computer and how it should be placed there.
- d3nj4l 6y ago
  Doesn't GPS on android use Google Play Services for location? In many apps, I'm asked to turn on Google's location services if I have them off. Would that not automatically send data to Google, even if you aren't logged in?
  - SahAssar 6y ago
    That's because those apps use google play location services, not because GPS on android in itself requires it. If you download apps from FDroid most won't use or require google play location services.
  - Youden 6y ago
    Yes. But depending on how far you're willing to go to get around it, there's a solution: MicroG [0]. It's basically an open-source Google Play Services implementation and it supports a number of different location providers like Apple and Mozilla. There are a bunch of ways to install it but the easiest is probably their LineageOS ROM [1]. [0]: https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ [1]: https://lineage.microg.org/ https://lineage.microg.org/
mindslight 6y ago
You can eliminate all Google concerns by installing a Free ROM (eg LineageOS) with F-Droid instead of GApps. I'm not saying that this is what most people are going to do, and I'm certainly not trying to openwash Android-as-marketed-by-Google. Just pointing out the path exists if you'd like to go down it. It helps to have an extra device, to be less tempted to compromise [with] your main one.
- emsy 6y ago
  I did this some years ago. The problem nowadays is that I don’t have much time to fiddle with my phone OS. My second issue is that Google systematically designed Play services so that Google free devices are basically neutered. You’ll miss out on a lot of features.
  - literallycancer 6y ago
    You can use Aurora store. Fiddling with OS is only required for obscure phones, if you have a mainstream high-end phone with a large dev community you'll probably never run into a problem.
keyb0ardninja 6y ago
Don't you think security through obscurity is widely rejected nowadays? The biggest problem I find with Apple's model of privacy and security is that there's a single point of failure: Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity
dielll 6y ago
Apple is only beholden to Wallstreet. Not privacy, not developers, not customers.
- rattray 6y ago
  Apple has Wall Street by the bulls, if you'll pardon the pun. Its cash and profitability relative to the market give it a ton of negotiating power with investors who might see things differently when it comes to business decisions. Apple makes money by focusing on its customers and brand. Investors have learned to let it do that.
rattray 6y ago
Worth noting that Google now allows you to request that it not store any web, app, or location data from any of its services, including Android. https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols You can configure it to delete after a certain period of time (eg 3 mo) or to never store it. You can also view and delete specific bits of data. Of course, I am sure there are loopholes and bugs that result in some information remaining on Google services, but for privacy conscious users who rely on some Google services, it's worth experimenting with and spreading.

edoceo 6y ago

Not OP but, I'm on a Pixel for the "bloat" free Android experience. I don't install any apps, I do all webservices through Firefox, DDG and have uBO enabled. I'm only moderately privacy concerned and I fell like this is an ok balance. Seems like every app on either platform comes with some problematic BS.

nullwarp 6y ago
I use my phone the same way, no apps and run GrapheneOS - no problems.
- tomcam 6y ago
  What brand/model?
  - searchableguy 6y ago
    Most likely pixel as those are the only ones with official support for graphene.

JeremyNT 6y ago

You can use stock Android without a Google account. You can avoid the Google Play Store, disable most google default provided apps, and sideload apps of your choosing. You can use a browser (such as Firefox) that the phone vendor has no control over. You can even install an alternate app store. This sounds like what the parent is doing, and it's the best mainstream experience for anybody looking for a privacy and security oriented mobile device (while still actually having control of their own device). With a Pixel phone, you can go further, unlock the bootloader and install a third party OS that does not even include Google services installed at all. Of course, on the other hand, you could sign up for every google service, load all their apps, and consent to all their tracking, in which case you give away everything. Google makes it very easy to do this. But either way, it's at least your choice. Unlike Apple, which thinks it certainly knows best what code should be allowed on your computer and how it should be placed there.

d3nj4l 6y ago
Doesn't GPS on android use Google Play Services for location? In many apps, I'm asked to turn on Google's location services if I have them off. Would that not automatically send data to Google, even if you aren't logged in?
- SahAssar 6y ago
  That's because those apps use google play location services, not because GPS on android in itself requires it. If you download apps from FDroid most won't use or require google play location services.
- Youden 6y ago
  Yes. But depending on how far you're willing to go to get around it, there's a solution: MicroG [0]. It's basically an open-source Google Play Services implementation and it supports a number of different location providers like Apple and Mozilla. There are a bunch of ways to install it but the easiest is probably their LineageOS ROM [1]. [0]: https://microg.org/ https://microg.org/ [1]: https://lineage.microg.org/ https://lineage.microg.org/

mindslight 6y ago

You can eliminate all Google concerns by installing a Free ROM (eg LineageOS) with F-Droid instead of GApps. I'm not saying that this is what most people are going to do, and I'm certainly not trying to openwash Android-as-marketed-by-Google. Just pointing out the path exists if you'd like to go down it. It helps to have an extra device, to be less tempted to compromise [with] your main one.

emsy 6y ago
I did this some years ago. The problem nowadays is that I don’t have much time to fiddle with my phone OS. My second issue is that Google systematically designed Play services so that Google free devices are basically neutered. You’ll miss out on a lot of features.
- literallycancer 6y ago
  You can use Aurora store. Fiddling with OS is only required for obscure phones, if you have a mainstream high-end phone with a large dev community you'll probably never run into a problem.

keyb0ardninja 6y ago

Don't you think security through obscurity is widely rejected nowadays? The biggest problem I find with Apple's model of privacy and security is that there's a single point of failure: Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity

dielll 6y ago

Apple is only beholden to Wallstreet. Not privacy, not developers, not customers.

rattray 6y ago
Apple has Wall Street by the bulls, if you'll pardon the pun. Its cash and profitability relative to the market give it a ton of negotiating power with investors who might see things differently when it comes to business decisions. Apple makes money by focusing on its customers and brand. Investors have learned to let it do that.

rattray 6y ago

Worth noting that Google now allows you to request that it not store any web, app, or location data from any of its services, including Android. https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols https://myactivity.google.com/activitycontrols You can configure it to delete after a certain period of time (eg 3 mo) or to never store it. You can also view and delete specific bits of data. Of course, I am sure there are loopholes and bugs that result in some information remaining on Google services, but for privacy conscious users who rely on some Google services, it's worth experimenting with and spreading.