4 ms·

What else would the funds go to that you're worried about?

by eli 6y ago

giancarlostoro 6y ago
You may want to see why Thunderbird had to create their own foundation just to fund their project. Firefox makes most of its income from the search engine deal with Google it seems. Looking at the Mozilla Foundation (not to be confused with the corporation which is what maintains Firefox) their initiatives dont even mention Firefox. They really need to make it very transparent where your money ends up. They list a buncha awards and convention type events, that's not helping Firefox at all. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/initiatives/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/initiatives/
- eitland 6y ago
  From what I understand Firefox is only a source of income, not a prioritized product. And yes: IMO this is kibd of backwards. Firefox has been their biggest contribution to the open web and it seems they are treating it as just an income source.
  - eli 6y ago
    I don't see how that could be true given that they continue to roll out features to Firefox.
    - giancarlostoro 6y ago
      We're not saying Firefox isn't being maintained, we're saying donations don't go to Firefox, they go to the foundation which is also apparently funded by Firefox. Something really needs to change... We shouldn't have heard about basically what is crucial for developers being scrapped to keep the show running.
      - eli 6y ago
        The Foundation doesn't cover the payroll for the engineers working on Firefox?
        shock 6y ago
        My impression from the layoffs thread from a couple weeks ago is that the Foundation does not employ engineers working on Firefox.
        giancarlostoro 6y ago
        I dont think its fair to downvote you for asking a question. But no it does not seem to be the case.
        thayne 6y ago
        No, Firefox is developed by Mozilla Corporation, which is a for-profit company owned by Mozilla foundation. As I understand it, this opens up the possibility of revenue sources not available to a non-profit for Firefox, but otoh, means you can't donate to support Firefox.
      - hvis 6y ago
        Last I saw the numbers, donations tally up to ~$10 million, and the search engine deal to ~$500 million. So I'm not sure what practical purpose you are aiming at.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    This is disappointing, but not surprising: there seems to be very little interest these days in funding the sort of work that created computers, the major operating systems and the internet. Software and tech is basically treated as a cost by everyone.
    - numpad0 6y ago
      If we look at IRL, governments pay for infrastructure from taxes charged on citizens on non-voluntary basis. Maybe Mozilla Foundation is one of those infrastructures inherently unprofitable, unattractive, not price competent on individual level?
      - gibolt 6y ago
        Totally agree, but I'm not sure which government would fund it. I know the US heavily funds quite a few dev tools, but would be reluctant to fund large consumer facing tools without multiple country cooperation.
        agustif 6y ago
        The EU likes privacy, most states already have weird public tv taxes and such. In spain you used to pay a canon/fee for every disk, hdd, or pendrive that can contain pirateed content, it's like a preemptive tax for everyone. lol...
      - franga2000 6y ago
        (EDIT: mainly talking about Firefox here) I don't think it's inherently unprofitable (and neither is most public infrastructure), but more that any possible step towards more profit would be almost always against the users' interest. Like with motorways and much of other public infrastructure, competition is basically impossible (and would be too inefficient) due to the sheer scale of the project, and letting a for-profit run it would be nothing but harmful to the public.
- alphaomegacode 6y ago
  You're very much on to something I think. I asked a question about the CEO & management soon after they announced the layoffs and the post had a few very good observations by others - then someone flagged the post and only my comments/responses. Maybe she or her umpteen executives were on a mission to be busy lol. You can see it here and some of the really good answers imo https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24171030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24171030
input_sh 6y ago
Long story short, donations to the Mozilla Foundation go to the Foundation, while Firefox, MDN, and others are managed by the Mozilla Corporation (a subsidiary of the Foundation). You can donate to the Foundation, but you can only purchase products from the Corporation: Mozilla VPN (https://vpn.mozilla.org/ https://vpn.mozilla.org/), Pocket Premium (https://getpocket.com/premium https://getpocket.com/premium), and Firefox Private Network (https://fpn.firefox.com/ https://fpn.firefox.com/). You can't donate to the Corporation.
vbezhenar 6y ago
Management salaries.
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
Looking at https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2018/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2018/, e.g. the "Combating Misinformation" is not something that I'd consider one of the core tasks of Mozilla. I would also assume that there are conferences, grants/sponsorship/stipends, CEO pay, etc. The audited report lists conferences/conventions meetings and advertising/promotion, two items that some may not want to contribute to. I'm making no judgement regarding whether these expenses make sense or not, just pointing out something that someone who wants to finance Firefox and MDN may not want to contribute to. Of course, unless you trust the organization to actually honor the intent behind a donation for a specific purpose, such donations are moot as long as the organization receives enough general-purpose donations: They can just put 100% of the money tied to a specific purpose behind that purpose, but reduce the amount of "general-purpose" money that would otherwise have gone to that purpose by the same amount.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > "Combating Misinformation" is not something that I'd consider one of the core tasks of Mozilla. Why? Misinformation is, this should have been proven by now, the greatest threat to democracy in recent history. Browsers, social networks and search engines are the entry point into the web, they have to act with the responsibility that comes with this position (and yes I know neither Facebook nor Google have done a good job the last years).
  - ifmpx 6y ago
    It's fine to think like this, but it's not fine to use donations for it if those donations were not made for that cause. This is why people don't donate to mozilla.
    - worik 6y ago
      Golly. It is there in their annual report. In part it is what you are donating for. In a way it is MDN's mission
  - wow_no 6y ago

What else would the funds go to that you're worried about?

by eli 6y ago

What else would the funds go to that you're worried about?

You may want to see why Thunderbird had to create their own foundation just to fund their project. Firefox makes most of its income from the search engine deal with Google it seems. Looking at the Mozilla Foundation (not to be confused with the corporation which is what maintains Firefox) their initiatives dont even mention Firefox. They really need to make it very transparent where your money ends up. They list a buncha awards and convention type events, that's not helping Firefox at all. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/initiatives/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/initiatives/

eitland 6y ago
From what I understand Firefox is only a source of income, not a prioritized product. And yes: IMO this is kibd of backwards. Firefox has been their biggest contribution to the open web and it seems they are treating it as just an income source.
- eli 6y ago
  I don't see how that could be true given that they continue to roll out features to Firefox.
  - giancarlostoro 6y ago
    We're not saying Firefox isn't being maintained, we're saying donations don't go to Firefox, they go to the foundation which is also apparently funded by Firefox. Something really needs to change... We shouldn't have heard about basically what is crucial for developers being scrapped to keep the show running.
    - eli 6y ago
      The Foundation doesn't cover the payroll for the engineers working on Firefox?
      - shock 6y ago
        My impression from the layoffs thread from a couple weeks ago is that the Foundation does not employ engineers working on Firefox.
      - giancarlostoro 6y ago
        I dont think its fair to downvote you for asking a question. But no it does not seem to be the case.
      - thayne 6y ago
        No, Firefox is developed by Mozilla Corporation, which is a for-profit company owned by Mozilla foundation. As I understand it, this opens up the possibility of revenue sources not available to a non-profit for Firefox, but otoh, means you can't donate to support Firefox.
    - hvis 6y ago
      Last I saw the numbers, donations tally up to ~$10 million, and the search engine deal to ~$500 million. So I'm not sure what practical purpose you are aiming at.
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  This is disappointing, but not surprising: there seems to be very little interest these days in funding the sort of work that created computers, the major operating systems and the internet. Software and tech is basically treated as a cost by everyone.
  - numpad0 6y ago
    If we look at IRL, governments pay for infrastructure from taxes charged on citizens on non-voluntary basis. Maybe Mozilla Foundation is one of those infrastructures inherently unprofitable, unattractive, not price competent on individual level?
    - gibolt 6y ago
      Totally agree, but I'm not sure which government would fund it. I know the US heavily funds quite a few dev tools, but would be reluctant to fund large consumer facing tools without multiple country cooperation.
      - agustif 6y ago
        The EU likes privacy, most states already have weird public tv taxes and such. In spain you used to pay a canon/fee for every disk, hdd, or pendrive that can contain pirateed content, it's like a preemptive tax for everyone. lol...
    - franga2000 6y ago
      (EDIT: mainly talking about Firefox here) I don't think it's inherently unprofitable (and neither is most public infrastructure), but more that any possible step towards more profit would be almost always against the users' interest. Like with motorways and much of other public infrastructure, competition is basically impossible (and would be too inefficient) due to the sheer scale of the project, and letting a for-profit run it would be nothing but harmful to the public.
alphaomegacode 6y ago
You're very much on to something I think. I asked a question about the CEO & management soon after they announced the layoffs and the post had a few very good observations by others - then someone flagged the post and only my comments/responses. Maybe she or her umpteen executives were on a mission to be busy lol. You can see it here and some of the really good answers imo https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24171030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24171030

input_sh 6y ago

Long story short, donations to the Mozilla Foundation go to the Foundation, while Firefox, MDN, and others are managed by the Mozilla Corporation (a subsidiary of the Foundation). You can donate to the Foundation, but you can only purchase products from the Corporation: Mozilla VPN (https://vpn.mozilla.org/ https://vpn.mozilla.org/), Pocket Premium (https://getpocket.com/premium https://getpocket.com/premium), and Firefox Private Network (https://fpn.firefox.com/ https://fpn.firefox.com/). You can't donate to the Corporation.

vbezhenar 6y ago

Management salaries.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

Looking at https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2018/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/foundation/annualreport/2018/, e.g. the "Combating Misinformation" is not something that I'd consider one of the core tasks of Mozilla. I would also assume that there are conferences, grants/sponsorship/stipends, CEO pay, etc. The audited report lists conferences/conventions meetings and advertising/promotion, two items that some may not want to contribute to. I'm making no judgement regarding whether these expenses make sense or not, just pointing out something that someone who wants to finance Firefox and MDN may not want to contribute to. Of course, unless you trust the organization to actually honor the intent behind a donation for a specific purpose, such donations are moot as long as the organization receives enough general-purpose donations: They can just put 100% of the money tied to a specific purpose behind that purpose, but reduce the amount of "general-purpose" money that would otherwise have gone to that purpose by the same amount.

mschuster91 6y ago
> "Combating Misinformation" is not something that I'd consider one of the core tasks of Mozilla. Why? Misinformation is, this should have been proven by now, the greatest threat to democracy in recent history. Browsers, social networks and search engines are the entry point into the web, they have to act with the responsibility that comes with this position (and yes I know neither Facebook nor Google have done a good job the last years).
- ifmpx 6y ago
  It's fine to think like this, but it's not fine to use donations for it if those donations were not made for that cause. This is why people don't donate to mozilla.
  - worik 6y ago
    Golly. It is there in their annual report. In part it is what you are donating for. In a way it is MDN's mission
- wow_no 6y ago