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Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Look, Mr. Scott, I'd love to explain everything to you, but the Captain wants this spectrographic analysis done by 1300 hours. [

Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Look, Mr. Scott, I'd love to explain everything to you, but the Captain wants this spectrographic analysis done by 1300 hours. [La Forge goes back to work; Scotty follows slowly] Scotty: Do you mind a little advice? Starfleet captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way. But the secret is to give them only what they need, not what they want. Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Yeah, well, I told the Captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour. Scotty: How long will it really take? Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: An hour! Scotty: Oh, you didn't tell him how long it would really take, did ya? Lt. Commander Geordi La Forge: Well, of course I did. Scotty: Oh, laddie. You've got a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker.

jdavid 15y ago
This might work in StarFleet, but the problem is that if you promise a manager something repeatedly, by overestimating, they will start to assume you are padding your results. Having worked on scrum teams before, I find its a good structured way to have a dialog about how much work is left, and how long you expect it to take. So rather than saying an hour. You would say this is as easy as changing a diaper, or its as hard as navigating through an asteroid belt at the speed of light ( having or not having done it ). I would appreciate it if managers ask: Have you done this before? (yes, no) How similar is this to something you have done before? ( very similar, kinda similar, totally new ) What concerns you about the task, or what risks do you see coming your way? ( detailed answer ) What can I do to get you the resources you need to help you deal with the risks you can foresee now?
- ThomPete 15y ago
  Only when scrum is extended into the overall strategy of the company can it solve that problem. It makes no sense if only the developers and designers are doing scrum when the rest of the company is expecting deadline deliveries.
- zedshaw 15y ago
  > the problem is that if you promise a manager something The real problem is thinking of "estimates" as "promises" when really they're rough guesses. If you go around holding people to a guess as if it were some kind of gospel biblical contract then yes, they will lie their ass off to protect themselves. Combine that with the fact that most organizations attempt to control the platform used, computers used, monitor size, operating system, IDE, editors, revision control tools, languages, documentation systems, testing methodology, meeting requirements, pairing, and nearly everything they can, and you start to see the real problem is.... managers who don't know programming, motherfucker. :-)
  - heresy 15y ago
    Sometimes they are promises. To customers. Who've already paid for it. :S
    - zedshaw 15y ago
      Ohhh, my bad, I totally forgot that people like selling things that don't exist but telling everyone else they do exist.
      - Groxx 15y ago
        I suppose the epitome of this would be pre-orders for Duke Nukem Forever?
      - Semiapies 15y ago
        Or promises to customers for custom software. They don't pay except on acceptance, but they won't pay more than the estimate. Of course, then you run into some of the same situations as described. shrug
      - pessimizer 15y ago
        famous case: http://www.itworld.com/waste-management-sues-sap-080327 http://www.itworld.com/waste-management-sues-sap-080327 "At that meeting, SAP AG executives and engineers represented that the software was a mature solution and conducted a demonstration consisting of what they represented was the actual SAP Waste and Recycling software," the complaint states. The company later discovered that the software was a "mock-up version of that software intended to deceive Waste Management," according to the complaint. SAP has admitted to this in "internal documents," the complaint states. "From the beginning, SAP assured Waste Management that its software was an 'out-of-the-box' solution that would meet Waste Management's needs without any customization or enhancements," the statement reads. "Unfortunately, Waste Management ultimately learned that these representations were not true."
- NY_USA_Hacker 15y ago
  You are in part outlining the start of some standard methodology for project time estimates. That's the good news. The bad news is that, for cases of never done this before and this is totally new, the methodology makes no estimates!
deleted 15y ago
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jdavid 15y ago

This might work in StarFleet, but the problem is that if you promise a manager something repeatedly, by overestimating, they will start to assume you are padding your results. Having worked on scrum teams before, I find its a good structured way to have a dialog about how much work is left, and how long you expect it to take. So rather than saying an hour. You would say this is as easy as changing a diaper, or its as hard as navigating through an asteroid belt at the speed of light ( having or not having done it ). I would appreciate it if managers ask: Have you done this before? (yes, no) How similar is this to something you have done before? ( very similar, kinda similar, totally new ) What concerns you about the task, or what risks do you see coming your way? ( detailed answer ) What can I do to get you the resources you need to help you deal with the risks you can foresee now?

ThomPete 15y ago
Only when scrum is extended into the overall strategy of the company can it solve that problem. It makes no sense if only the developers and designers are doing scrum when the rest of the company is expecting deadline deliveries.
zedshaw 15y ago
> the problem is that if you promise a manager something The real problem is thinking of "estimates" as "promises" when really they're rough guesses. If you go around holding people to a guess as if it were some kind of gospel biblical contract then yes, they will lie their ass off to protect themselves. Combine that with the fact that most organizations attempt to control the platform used, computers used, monitor size, operating system, IDE, editors, revision control tools, languages, documentation systems, testing methodology, meeting requirements, pairing, and nearly everything they can, and you start to see the real problem is.... managers who don't know programming, motherfucker. :-)
- heresy 15y ago
  Sometimes they are promises. To customers. Who've already paid for it. :S
  - zedshaw 15y ago
    Ohhh, my bad, I totally forgot that people like selling things that don't exist but telling everyone else they do exist.
    - Groxx 15y ago
      I suppose the epitome of this would be pre-orders for Duke Nukem Forever?
    - Semiapies 15y ago
      Or promises to customers for custom software. They don't pay except on acceptance, but they won't pay more than the estimate. Of course, then you run into some of the same situations as described. shrug
    - pessimizer 15y ago
      famous case: http://www.itworld.com/waste-management-sues-sap-080327 http://www.itworld.com/waste-management-sues-sap-080327 "At that meeting, SAP AG executives and engineers represented that the software was a mature solution and conducted a demonstration consisting of what they represented was the actual SAP Waste and Recycling software," the complaint states. The company later discovered that the software was a "mock-up version of that software intended to deceive Waste Management," according to the complaint. SAP has admitted to this in "internal documents," the complaint states. "From the beginning, SAP assured Waste Management that its software was an 'out-of-the-box' solution that would meet Waste Management's needs without any customization or enhancements," the statement reads. "Unfortunately, Waste Management ultimately learned that these representations were not true."
NY_USA_Hacker 15y ago
You are in part outlining the start of some standard methodology for project time estimates. That's the good news. The bad news is that, for cases of never done this before and this is totally new, the methodology makes no estimates!

deleted 15y ago

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