3 ms·

They are not going to get them, and the people saying otherwise don't use Telegram, and/or do not know what they are arguing over;pedantry. Telegram works well.

by BTCOG 6y ago

They are not going to get them, and the people saying otherwise don't use Telegram, and/or do not know what they are arguing over;pedantry. Telegram works well. Anyone can start a private chat encrypted end-to-end, those messages only stay on the device, and you can set them to auto-delete from BOTH user devices in 3 seconds, 5, 10, 30 second, 1min, 1 hour, 1 day. Nobody at all is going to get those messages. Go ahead and wireshark your connection and start using Telegram.

ldarby 6y ago
> wireshark your connection This isn't good advice for trying to show someone their messages aren't being sent in clear text. It could be encrypted using a weak cipher or have other implementation bugs that make it trivial for a nation state to decrypt it. You need to be able to look at the application's source code to tell what encryption it's using and if it's secure enough.
- maqp 6y ago
  Wireshark would show group messages in Telegram are indeed encrypted. However, they are encrypted only in-transit, meaning the server will see 100% of group chats. This can not be trivially detected with wireshark hence the advice to use the analyzer is useless and downright dangerous. It's like using a radiation detector to find cancer.
Krasnol 6y ago
> Anyone can start a private chat encrypted end-to-end, those messages only stay on the device, and you can set them to auto-delete from BOTH user devices in 3 seconds, 5, 10, 30 second, 1min, 1 hour, 1 day. Sure they can encrypt E2E but they don't. Most chats on Telegram are unencrypted. Huge channels like the one mentioned above are full of agents and nothing prevents them from taking screenshots. Don't spread false security.
- catears 6y ago
  I recently found this out. You need to specifically create a "secret chat" in order for telegram to actually use E2E. I originally chose Telegram because I wanted a messaging app that respects my privacy and E2E by default is pretty obvious in that case. Maybe I'm stupid for not realizing or looking it up before chosing Telegram. Luckily there are a lot of other apps out there in the same space that do this better. Have switched to Signal now and really like it! Privacy should never be an opt-in feature like in Telegram!
maqp 6y ago
"people saying otherwise don't use Telegram, and/or do not know what they are arguing over" So that would include world famous professional cryptographers like Bruce Schneier and Matt Green. Meanwhile the people recommending Telegram are random usernames on internet forums. It sounds like you're the only one who doesn't know what they're talking about. "Anyone can start a private chat encrypted end-to-end" This is such a shill talking point. Telegram doesn't even support E2EE for groups. Every dissident groups leaks 100% of its chats to server with no possibility to opt-out.

by BTCOG 6y ago

ldarby 6y ago

> wireshark your connection This isn't good advice for trying to show someone their messages aren't being sent in clear text. It could be encrypted using a weak cipher or have other implementation bugs that make it trivial for a nation state to decrypt it. You need to be able to look at the application's source code to tell what encryption it's using and if it's secure enough.

maqp 6y ago
Wireshark would show group messages in Telegram are indeed encrypted. However, they are encrypted only in-transit, meaning the server will see 100% of group chats. This can not be trivially detected with wireshark hence the advice to use the analyzer is useless and downright dangerous. It's like using a radiation detector to find cancer.

Krasnol 6y ago

> Anyone can start a private chat encrypted end-to-end, those messages only stay on the device, and you can set them to auto-delete from BOTH user devices in 3 seconds, 5, 10, 30 second, 1min, 1 hour, 1 day. Sure they can encrypt E2E but they don't. Most chats on Telegram are unencrypted. Huge channels like the one mentioned above are full of agents and nothing prevents them from taking screenshots. Don't spread false security.

catears 6y ago
I recently found this out. You need to specifically create a "secret chat" in order for telegram to actually use E2E. I originally chose Telegram because I wanted a messaging app that respects my privacy and E2E by default is pretty obvious in that case. Maybe I'm stupid for not realizing or looking it up before chosing Telegram. Luckily there are a lot of other apps out there in the same space that do this better. Have switched to Signal now and really like it! Privacy should never be an opt-in feature like in Telegram!

maqp 6y ago

"people saying otherwise don't use Telegram, and/or do not know what they are arguing over" So that would include world famous professional cryptographers like Bruce Schneier and Matt Green. Meanwhile the people recommending Telegram are random usernames on internet forums. It sounds like you're the only one who doesn't know what they're talking about. "Anyone can start a private chat encrypted end-to-end" This is such a shill talking point. Telegram doesn't even support E2EE for groups. Every dissident groups leaks 100% of its chats to server with no possibility to opt-out.