4 ms·

If the ransomers are terrorists, then it is a crime to pay them. This has been a challenge when Americans are kidnapped overseas and their families wants to pay

If the ransomers are terrorists, then it is a crime to pay them. This has been a challenge when Americans are kidnapped overseas and their families wants to pay the ransom but are warned that doing so is illegal.

kmonsen 6y ago
There are fairly easy ways to get around this. Everyone says they never pay ransoms, but they mostly do. It is not a ransom, but you hire some cousin to do a not existing project etc. These things happens in parts of the world where transparency is not a top priority.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  How does this fool even a semi-competent lawman? “Oh, officer, I never bought drugs. That’s totally illegal. I just left money in a box that my cousin picked up, and a few days later the drugs just appeared there. Totally not, myself buying drugs, though!”
  - renewiltord 6y ago
    Because for drugs, the semi-competent lawman goes after you. If it's for my child's life, there's no point going after me. I'd go to prison for life for that. You can't apply prison as a deterrent, you can't use it to prevent me from harming others, and honestly, you can relate to me.
  - hamandcheese 6y ago
    It’s not about fooling anyone, it’s about maintaining enough plausible deniability.
  - kmonsen 6y ago
    It is often (always in the cases I was involved with) with government involvement so there is no risk of being investigated afterwards. This is just the way it works so everyone can say they don't pay bribes and still save lives.
csense 6y ago
Ultimately the goal is that nobody gets kidnapped. One way to ensure that is to ensure ransoms can't be paid, by threatening criminal penalties to anyone who pays a ransom. Of course this means if your child is kidnapped, you have a choice between going to jail, or receiving one finger or toe per week in the mail for the next half-year or so. (That is, if you're a generally law-abiding citizen who doesn't know the ins and outs of money laundering and you're pretty sure you'll get caught. If you think you can make the payment and get away with it, this changes your calculus.) When your kid is horribly murdered as a result of your unwillingness to break the law, it's a cold comfort that the law's wise policy will theoretically eventually save hundreds or thousands of others' kids from the same fate. I find it fascinating that it's illegal to pay to help a child who's in physical danger of being tortured / murdered, but apparently not illegal to pay to prevent simple doxxing. It seems like it ought to be the reverse, the law should show mercy to an individual person trying to save the life of their relative, but be more strict when it comes to a large business or institution trying to prevent merely economic or informational harms.

kmonsen 6y ago

There are fairly easy ways to get around this. Everyone says they never pay ransoms, but they mostly do. It is not a ransom, but you hire some cousin to do a not existing project etc. These things happens in parts of the world where transparency is not a top priority.

ryandrake 6y ago
How does this fool even a semi-competent lawman? “Oh, officer, I never bought drugs. That’s totally illegal. I just left money in a box that my cousin picked up, and a few days later the drugs just appeared there. Totally not, myself buying drugs, though!”
- renewiltord 6y ago
  Because for drugs, the semi-competent lawman goes after you. If it's for my child's life, there's no point going after me. I'd go to prison for life for that. You can't apply prison as a deterrent, you can't use it to prevent me from harming others, and honestly, you can relate to me.
- hamandcheese 6y ago
  It’s not about fooling anyone, it’s about maintaining enough plausible deniability.
- kmonsen 6y ago
  It is often (always in the cases I was involved with) with government involvement so there is no risk of being investigated afterwards. This is just the way it works so everyone can say they don't pay bribes and still save lives.

csense 6y ago

Ultimately the goal is that nobody gets kidnapped. One way to ensure that is to ensure ransoms can't be paid, by threatening criminal penalties to anyone who pays a ransom. Of course this means if your child is kidnapped, you have a choice between going to jail, or receiving one finger or toe per week in the mail for the next half-year or so. (That is, if you're a generally law-abiding citizen who doesn't know the ins and outs of money laundering and you're pretty sure you'll get caught. If you think you can make the payment and get away with it, this changes your calculus.) When your kid is horribly murdered as a result of your unwillingness to break the law, it's a cold comfort that the law's wise policy will theoretically eventually save hundreds or thousands of others' kids from the same fate. I find it fascinating that it's illegal to pay to help a child who's in physical danger of being tortured / murdered, but apparently not illegal to pay to prevent simple doxxing. It seems like it ought to be the reverse, the law should show mercy to an individual person trying to save the life of their relative, but be more strict when it comes to a large business or institution trying to prevent merely economic or informational harms.