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I would definitely encourage all of my competitors to use GraphQL. Nothing like getting a free six-month lead. That's two months they spend learning GraphQL, t

I would definitely encourage all of my competitors to use GraphQL. Nothing like getting a free six-month lead. That's two months they spend learning GraphQL, two months introducing a mystery-meat binding layer and learning that, and two months debugging it all and pulling their hair out. And no, using a giant third-party lock-in toolkit like Hasura or Apollo is not a response.

blablabla123 6y ago
Starting to work with GraphQL is definitely "mysterious" and backend controllers must be implemented completely differently when it comes to caching. But I think performance- and complexity-wise it's definitely ahead of REST. I don't see any problem using Hasura for prototyping. It offers pagination, aggregation and other things that usually only matured REST APIs offer. So basically it's possible to post-pone the Web Application-Backend, see what queries make sense and later "hard code" that with the preferred framework. At least that's how I'm approaching a side-project right now and I'm really happy that I can focus on the open tasks and keep the mundane work for later.
vosper 6y ago
Genuine question: What technologies / techniques are you using while your competitors flounder around with GraphQL?
- claydavisss 6y ago
  REST and JSON because arbitrary querying is a huge YAGNI. That said, the presence of GraphQL is a great signal that a team is infested with architecture astronauts, so I suppose it has its uses.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Tried and true server side rendering. Sure it will not look as snappy as a PWA... but I guarantee you that a seasoned team of Drupal developers can get up and running faster than a team of juniors fresh out of coding bootcamp, or even a team of senior-ish Javascript frontend devs who haven't heard about GraphQL yet, and much less have years of experience.
  - jklm 6y ago
    This feels like a strawman...I’m sure a seasoned team of GraphQL devs could getting something running faster then a team of veteran devs who are trying to use Drupal but have no experience.
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      No, it's not a strawman argument. Graphql was released in 2015, so even the most senior devs you can find have only five years of experience (ignoring people who have worked at FB before). Drupal however has a history dating back to 2001!
      - vosper 6y ago
        5 years of experience in any frontend framework, including Drupal, is enough time to learn how to stand something up pretty quickly. I’ve been doing web apps for 15 years: the frameworks are not that complicated. And if we’re picking Drupal because of its age (and if not then why Drupal, of all things? What’s the overlap with GraphQL?) why not go back further and assert that someone who’s great with C and CGI could do even better?
markl42 6y ago
It's undeniable that there's a learning curve to GraphQL - but at the end of the day, it's just adding another investment that developers may choose to make their lives easier in the long run. As in industry, we're okay with a frontend JS framework - React (or vue or angular) being part of the baseline set of investments you make when building a website. It's just considered the cost of doing business. (But that wasn't always the case! I for one don't miss using jQuery...) I imagine GraphQL will get to a similar place - where the investment is more well understood and accepted. (Of course common sense still applies - if a website is simple enough that it doesn't need a frontend js framework then don't use one - same goes for graphql, don't use it if you really don't need it)

blablabla123 6y ago

Starting to work with GraphQL is definitely "mysterious" and backend controllers must be implemented completely differently when it comes to caching. But I think performance- and complexity-wise it's definitely ahead of REST. I don't see any problem using Hasura for prototyping. It offers pagination, aggregation and other things that usually only matured REST APIs offer. So basically it's possible to post-pone the Web Application-Backend, see what queries make sense and later "hard code" that with the preferred framework. At least that's how I'm approaching a side-project right now and I'm really happy that I can focus on the open tasks and keep the mundane work for later.

vosper 6y ago

Genuine question: What technologies / techniques are you using while your competitors flounder around with GraphQL?

claydavisss 6y ago
REST and JSON because arbitrary querying is a huge YAGNI. That said, the presence of GraphQL is a great signal that a team is infested with architecture astronauts, so I suppose it has its uses.
mschuster91 6y ago
Tried and true server side rendering. Sure it will not look as snappy as a PWA... but I guarantee you that a seasoned team of Drupal developers can get up and running faster than a team of juniors fresh out of coding bootcamp, or even a team of senior-ish Javascript frontend devs who haven't heard about GraphQL yet, and much less have years of experience.
- jklm 6y ago
  This feels like a strawman...I’m sure a seasoned team of GraphQL devs could getting something running faster then a team of veteran devs who are trying to use Drupal but have no experience.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    No, it's not a strawman argument. Graphql was released in 2015, so even the most senior devs you can find have only five years of experience (ignoring people who have worked at FB before). Drupal however has a history dating back to 2001!
    - vosper 6y ago
      5 years of experience in any frontend framework, including Drupal, is enough time to learn how to stand something up pretty quickly. I’ve been doing web apps for 15 years: the frameworks are not that complicated. And if we’re picking Drupal because of its age (and if not then why Drupal, of all things? What’s the overlap with GraphQL?) why not go back further and assert that someone who’s great with C and CGI could do even better?

markl42 6y ago

It's undeniable that there's a learning curve to GraphQL - but at the end of the day, it's just adding another investment that developers may choose to make their lives easier in the long run. As in industry, we're okay with a frontend JS framework - React (or vue or angular) being part of the baseline set of investments you make when building a website. It's just considered the cost of doing business. (But that wasn't always the case! I for one don't miss using jQuery...) I imagine GraphQL will get to a similar place - where the investment is more well understood and accepted. (Of course common sense still applies - if a website is simple enough that it doesn't need a frontend js framework then don't use one - same goes for graphql, don't use it if you really don't need it)