5 ms·

Great 1900s truss construction. But what a visual blight on the riverfront and the city streets. I wonder what the town meetings looked like? Did they have N

Great 1900s truss construction. But what a visual blight on the riverfront and the city streets. I wonder what the town meetings looked like? Did they have NIMBYs? Did Chicago have NIMBYs when the ell was being built?

jerf 6y ago
"But what a visual blight on the riverfront and the city streets." A very late-20th and current 21st century perspective. This is 1902; if you were actually there your first impression would probably be more like "wow, that's a lot of horse crap on the roads". If you look you can see quite a bit of it in the roads in the video... if you know what you're looking for. 21st century eyes are not looking for that in the video and probably just assumed it was noise or rocks. I'm not saying you're right or wrong in that persective; just observing it is a product of your time and probably not something they'd agree with.
- m4rtink 6y ago
  I think its magnificent, beautiful! And people back ten apparently thought so as well, as they even "photoshoped" these monorails, airships, cablecars, baloons, trams, motorcycles and other gadgets on top of real photos and sold the result as postcards (best link I could find, sorry): https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-29/show/2207/picture-postcards-topography-czech-republic-district-of-znojmo/ https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-29/show/2207/p... https://www.burda-auction.com/en/public-auction-62/show/1390/picture-postcards/ https://www.burda-auction.com/en/public-auction-62/show/1390... https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-19/show/2168/picture-postcards-topography-czech-republic-district-of-most/ https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-19/show/2168/p... https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-27/show/2158/picture-postcards-topography-czech-republic-district-of-kladno/ https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-27/show/2158/p... This is how people viewed progress and looked forward into the future back then. And it still makes me sad when some nice and intricate industrial infrastructure is simply razed and replaced by anonymous blocks of flats or clone-like office building. This stuff has soul!
distances 6y ago
Do you mean the train is a visual blight? I have to disagree, it's magnificent. The buildings too when compared to modern-day Wuppertal. I wonder how we allowed the postwar construction to be so damned ugly everywhere. What would a beautiful building with a proper decorated facade cost these days? Would it really be prohibitively expensive?
- bboygravity 6y ago
  My main thoughts exactly. Every city in Europe (that wasn't completely bombed) has a an "old town" or "old city center" where all the tourists stay. The tourists stay there, because the old part is the only part that's considered pretty. It's usually a relatively small part of the city where most buildings are in the same old consistent style with generally lots of details on buildings. Then there's the rest of the city with post-war/modern absolutely soulless ugly buildings that have been optimized to be built as fast as possible, as cheap as possible and as large as allowed. Just plain depressing minimalist squares with no details. Esthetics are not a relevant part of modern building (engineering) goals in Europe now it seems. To me it is close to "Soviet building style". The only modern exception I can think of in the entire world would be Singapore. Seeing that German village from the flying train I can't help but think that quality of public life was better than it is now in Europe. I'm referring to: way way way less traffic, almost no combustion engine driven traffic, cleaner air and water (possibly?), larger homes, no AirBNB in the city centers, all buildings look as new, all buildings look super well maintained, tons of space for traffic, green/trees everywhere and most importantly: addictive/toxic constant distractions such as smartphones had yet to be invented. Look at all those people walking around and DOING things without staring at screens! wow! And kids still played outside? woah Conclusion: definitely not all aspects of life improved with time. PS: yes, I realize some aspects of life back then where way worse than they are now for the average person.
  - rhn_mk1 6y ago
    The thing that struck me was the lack of traffic jams on the section over the street, compared to today's Wuppertal. What happened to all the traffic? Okay, that's easy: population increased. But before I accept that as an answer, I want to know how a city with population low enough to have essenstially no traffic managed to have enough ability to construct and run such a difficult traffic project? Whereas today, given a town with the same size and amount of trafic as 1902 Wuppertal, the towns I know tend to close bus lines instead of maintaining regular ones. I have a sad hunch this has something to do with cars and no one caring, but can't really come up with anything real.
tgb 6y ago
I don't get it. We have powerlines on every street yet NIMBYs complained about a single cell-tower being built in my hometown. Whether something is an 'eyesore' or not seems totally arbitrary. And in my view, this one has a real beauty, like a city skyline - totally artificial yet vibrant and exhilarating.
- WalterBright 6y ago
  People originally objected to the Eiffel Tower as being an eyesore. It was also built as an advertisement.
- 7952 6y ago
  The trend is to always hide everything as much as possible. I think that creates an uncanny valley effect. Better to paint things bright vibrant colours rather than bland grey.
detaro 6y ago
They had "this is blasphemous work against god" arguments, that annoying enough? ;) But also needed better transportation, and no real alternatives on offer.
chrisco255 6y ago
Yeah I don't think NIMBYism took off until a couple decades later. Either way, this is a very impressive engineering achievement for 1902. They probably imagined that all cities would implement something like this. I rather like the design. It is steampunk.
LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
At that time at that place NIMBYs would have been tared and feathered, or something similar. Which applies to the whole region, and time, I think.
8bitsrule 6y ago
Depends on how you see it. Many see cars and buses and (insanely expensive) light-rail on streets as a visual blight. The Wuppertal footprint is very large. Compare to (the very economical 1970s design of) the Dortmund H-Bahn: each pylon uses about 1m2 of ground. Clearly designed to please engineers, not contractors and investors. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dortmund_H-Bahn https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dortmund_H-Bahn https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dortmund_H-Bahn#/media/File:TU-Dortmund-Sued-71-.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dortmund_H-Bahn#...

jerf 6y ago

"But what a visual blight on the riverfront and the city streets." A very late-20th and current 21st century perspective. This is 1902; if you were actually there your first impression would probably be more like "wow, that's a lot of horse crap on the roads". If you look you can see quite a bit of it in the roads in the video... if you know what you're looking for. 21st century eyes are not looking for that in the video and probably just assumed it was noise or rocks. I'm not saying you're right or wrong in that persective; just observing it is a product of your time and probably not something they'd agree with.

m4rtink 6y ago
I think its magnificent, beautiful! And people back ten apparently thought so as well, as they even "photoshoped" these monorails, airships, cablecars, baloons, trams, motorcycles and other gadgets on top of real photos and sold the result as postcards (best link I could find, sorry): https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-29/show/2207/picture-postcards-topography-czech-republic-district-of-znojmo/ https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-29/show/2207/p... https://www.burda-auction.com/en/public-auction-62/show/1390/picture-postcards/ https://www.burda-auction.com/en/public-auction-62/show/1390... https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-19/show/2168/picture-postcards-topography-czech-republic-district-of-most/ https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-19/show/2168/p... https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-27/show/2158/picture-postcards-topography-czech-republic-district-of-kladno/ https://www.burda-auction.com/en/mail-auction-27/show/2158/p... This is how people viewed progress and looked forward into the future back then. And it still makes me sad when some nice and intricate industrial infrastructure is simply razed and replaced by anonymous blocks of flats or clone-like office building. This stuff has soul!

distances 6y ago

Do you mean the train is a visual blight? I have to disagree, it's magnificent. The buildings too when compared to modern-day Wuppertal. I wonder how we allowed the postwar construction to be so damned ugly everywhere. What would a beautiful building with a proper decorated facade cost these days? Would it really be prohibitively expensive?

bboygravity 6y ago
My main thoughts exactly. Every city in Europe (that wasn't completely bombed) has a an "old town" or "old city center" where all the tourists stay. The tourists stay there, because the old part is the only part that's considered pretty. It's usually a relatively small part of the city where most buildings are in the same old consistent style with generally lots of details on buildings. Then there's the rest of the city with post-war/modern absolutely soulless ugly buildings that have been optimized to be built as fast as possible, as cheap as possible and as large as allowed. Just plain depressing minimalist squares with no details. Esthetics are not a relevant part of modern building (engineering) goals in Europe now it seems. To me it is close to "Soviet building style". The only modern exception I can think of in the entire world would be Singapore. Seeing that German village from the flying train I can't help but think that quality of public life was better than it is now in Europe. I'm referring to: way way way less traffic, almost no combustion engine driven traffic, cleaner air and water (possibly?), larger homes, no AirBNB in the city centers, all buildings look as new, all buildings look super well maintained, tons of space for traffic, green/trees everywhere and most importantly: addictive/toxic constant distractions such as smartphones had yet to be invented. Look at all those people walking around and DOING things without staring at screens! wow! And kids still played outside? woah Conclusion: definitely not all aspects of life improved with time. PS: yes, I realize some aspects of life back then where way worse than they are now for the average person.
- rhn_mk1 6y ago
  The thing that struck me was the lack of traffic jams on the section over the street, compared to today's Wuppertal. What happened to all the traffic? Okay, that's easy: population increased. But before I accept that as an answer, I want to know how a city with population low enough to have essenstially no traffic managed to have enough ability to construct and run such a difficult traffic project? Whereas today, given a town with the same size and amount of trafic as 1902 Wuppertal, the towns I know tend to close bus lines instead of maintaining regular ones. I have a sad hunch this has something to do with cars and no one caring, but can't really come up with anything real.

tgb 6y ago

I don't get it. We have powerlines on every street yet NIMBYs complained about a single cell-tower being built in my hometown. Whether something is an 'eyesore' or not seems totally arbitrary. And in my view, this one has a real beauty, like a city skyline - totally artificial yet vibrant and exhilarating.

WalterBright 6y ago
People originally objected to the Eiffel Tower as being an eyesore. It was also built as an advertisement.
7952 6y ago
The trend is to always hide everything as much as possible. I think that creates an uncanny valley effect. Better to paint things bright vibrant colours rather than bland grey.

detaro 6y ago

They had "this is blasphemous work against god" arguments, that annoying enough? ;) But also needed better transportation, and no real alternatives on offer.

chrisco255 6y ago

Yeah I don't think NIMBYism took off until a couple decades later. Either way, this is a very impressive engineering achievement for 1902. They probably imagined that all cities would implement something like this. I rather like the design. It is steampunk.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago

At that time at that place NIMBYs would have been tared and feathered, or something similar. Which applies to the whole region, and time, I think.

8bitsrule 6y ago

Depends on how you see it. Many see cars and buses and (insanely expensive) light-rail on streets as a visual blight. The Wuppertal footprint is very large. Compare to (the very economical 1970s design of) the Dortmund H-Bahn: each pylon uses about 1m2 of ground. Clearly designed to please engineers, not contractors and investors. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dortmund_H-Bahn https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dortmund_H-Bahn https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dortmund_H-Bahn#/media/File:TU-Dortmund-Sued-71-.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dortmund_H-Bahn#...