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The Battle of Santa Cruz Islands is considered a strategic victory for the U.S. even though it was a huge tactical defeat, because it depleted the stock of trai

The Battle of Santa Cruz Islands is considered a strategic victory for the U.S. even though it was a huge tactical defeat, because it depleted the stock of trained pilots enough that Japan wasn't able to mount effective resistance for the rest of the war. Didn't know this. How sad. The more I learn about WWII and its abject brutality, the more I marvel at how much US culture fetishizes it. Related: this season of Revisionist History has a series about Curtis LeMay and the history of napalm that is equal parts fascinating and sickening.

gknoy 6y ago
> equal parts fascinating and sickening That's how I felt when I watched the documentary about Robert MacNamara [0], when they started talking about how we are pretty sure that what we did to Japan _before_ the atomic bombs counted as war crimes. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War
- cushychicken 6y ago
  That's most of what the podcast covers. They quote MacNamara in The Fog of War as well.
- RhysU 6y ago
  Please do recall everything mentioned above pertaining to Japan was after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    When else would it be? I'm unsure what your point is…
    - RhysU 6y ago
      All the horrible Pacific WW2 brutality by the US followed a surprise attack on its homeland intended to kneecap its military abilities so that Japan could invade countries around it unimpeded. Doesn't make any of it right. Just putting it in context.
  - cushychicken 6y ago
    The US did some disproportionately heinous shit after Pearl Harbor. For example: 2,500 people died in the attacks on Pearl Harbor. The firebombing of Tokyo killed somewhere between 90,000 and 120,000 people - most of them civilians, and most either incinerated or asphyxiated by incendiary bombs over the course of six hours. It's the single most lethal day in human history - even greater than the atomic bombs, where over half the deaths were lingering affects of radiation over weeks, months, or years. Curtis LeMay, the Allied Air commander in the Pacific, freely admitted that he would have been tried as a war criminal for the firebombing of Tokyo had the Japanese won. Don't rush to justify everything the US did just because we weren't the first to strike.
C1sc0cat 6y ago
There where also fuel and key supply shortages - just the same as Germany had late war
SubiculumCode 6y ago
WWII was brutal. It was an existential war that had to be won, and we did win, and at great cost and tragedy. I do not think Americans fetishize WWII, but I think we do think of WWII with some pride, not for the evil that was committed, but for the triumph over a larger evil. It is too easy to look back and criticize the hard choices leaders made when faced with terrible situations.

gknoy 6y ago

> equal parts fascinating and sickening That's how I felt when I watched the documentary about Robert MacNamara [0], when they started talking about how we are pretty sure that what we did to Japan _before_ the atomic bombs counted as war crimes. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War

cushychicken 6y ago
That's most of what the podcast covers. They quote MacNamara in The Fog of War as well.
RhysU 6y ago
Please do recall everything mentioned above pertaining to Japan was after https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
- saagarjha 6y ago
  When else would it be? I'm unsure what your point is…
  - RhysU 6y ago
    All the horrible Pacific WW2 brutality by the US followed a surprise attack on its homeland intended to kneecap its military abilities so that Japan could invade countries around it unimpeded. Doesn't make any of it right. Just putting it in context.
- cushychicken 6y ago
  The US did some disproportionately heinous shit after Pearl Harbor. For example: 2,500 people died in the attacks on Pearl Harbor. The firebombing of Tokyo killed somewhere between 90,000 and 120,000 people - most of them civilians, and most either incinerated or asphyxiated by incendiary bombs over the course of six hours. It's the single most lethal day in human history - even greater than the atomic bombs, where over half the deaths were lingering affects of radiation over weeks, months, or years. Curtis LeMay, the Allied Air commander in the Pacific, freely admitted that he would have been tried as a war criminal for the firebombing of Tokyo had the Japanese won. Don't rush to justify everything the US did just because we weren't the first to strike.

C1sc0cat 6y ago

There where also fuel and key supply shortages - just the same as Germany had late war

SubiculumCode 6y ago

WWII was brutal. It was an existential war that had to be won, and we did win, and at great cost and tragedy. I do not think Americans fetishize WWII, but I think we do think of WWII with some pride, not for the evil that was committed, but for the triumph over a larger evil. It is too easy to look back and criticize the hard choices leaders made when faced with terrible situations.