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Is that second part still a thing? I know ww2 got hairy, but as a regular civilian I don't know a ton of context about whether this was isolated or the start of

Is that second part still a thing? I know ww2 got hairy, but as a regular civilian I don't know a ton of context about whether this was isolated or the start of a trend. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident

parsimo2010 6y ago
Some thoughts: A) The "law of armed conflict" isn't a formal law, it's a collection of treaties recognized by most countries, and each country can have a slightly different interpretation. But most of the written stuff only goes back to the Geneva Conventions, and before that it was just tradition that kept everyone in line. Basically, if your side didn't follow tradition then there was a chance that you wouldn't be treated well if you got captured. So people mostly behaved themselves. B) All (civilized) forces agree on the idea that it is unethical to attack non-combatants. There are grey areas, but everyone agrees that a pilot is no longer a combatant after his plane is disabled. If they land in your territory you can capture them and hold them prisoner, but you can't kill them, even if they were dropping bombs on you a few hours earlier. Similarly, if you sink a ship you are not supposed to kill the survivors. C) Accidents happen and communication between enemies isn't totally reliable. Although you aren't supposed to kill people engaged in life-saving or rescue operations because they are non-combatants, what are you going to think if you see an enemy ship or plane approaching your defenseless friends? Sometimes people do bad stuff intentionally though, and hope that the lawyers can make a decent case if they get caught. Considering that evidence often gets destroyed and that dead men can't give testimony, they often get away with it. D) A non-combatant can lose their protected status by engaging in combat. If a downed pilot pulls out his sidearm and starts shooting while you're trying to capture him, then you can shoot back. You can't shoot a clearly marked medic trying to save someone's life, but if that medic picks up a gun then you can shoot them. Paratroopers are practically defenseless while they are under canopy but they are considered combatants, so you can shoot them in the air. E) AI probably won't be granted personhood until after they demonstrate sentience, so computer pilots probably won't get any of the courtesies discussed above. Source: this was made very clear to to me at SERE school and is made clear to everyone at any SERE school regardless of branch. The exact phrase my instructor used was, "don't start bopping people on the head if you get caught behind enemy lines, but if it looks like the enemy isn't playing fair then you might as well get to bopping."

parsimo2010 6y ago

Some thoughts: A) The "law of armed conflict" isn't a formal law, it's a collection of treaties recognized by most countries, and each country can have a slightly different interpretation. But most of the written stuff only goes back to the Geneva Conventions, and before that it was just tradition that kept everyone in line. Basically, if your side didn't follow tradition then there was a chance that you wouldn't be treated well if you got captured. So people mostly behaved themselves. B) All (civilized) forces agree on the idea that it is unethical to attack non-combatants. There are grey areas, but everyone agrees that a pilot is no longer a combatant after his plane is disabled. If they land in your territory you can capture them and hold them prisoner, but you can't kill them, even if they were dropping bombs on you a few hours earlier. Similarly, if you sink a ship you are not supposed to kill the survivors. C) Accidents happen and communication between enemies isn't totally reliable. Although you aren't supposed to kill people engaged in life-saving or rescue operations because they are non-combatants, what are you going to think if you see an enemy ship or plane approaching your defenseless friends? Sometimes people do bad stuff intentionally though, and hope that the lawyers can make a decent case if they get caught. Considering that evidence often gets destroyed and that dead men can't give testimony, they often get away with it. D) A non-combatant can lose their protected status by engaging in combat. If a downed pilot pulls out his sidearm and starts shooting while you're trying to capture him, then you can shoot back. You can't shoot a clearly marked medic trying to save someone's life, but if that medic picks up a gun then you can shoot them. Paratroopers are practically defenseless while they are under canopy but they are considered combatants, so you can shoot them in the air. E) AI probably won't be granted personhood until after they demonstrate sentience, so computer pilots probably won't get any of the courtesies discussed above. Source: this was made very clear to to me at SERE school and is made clear to everyone at any SERE school regardless of branch. The exact phrase my instructor used was, "don't start bopping people on the head if you get caught behind enemy lines, but if it looks like the enemy isn't playing fair then you might as well get to bopping."