6 ms·

Dropbox + git = Designer Luv

83 points by dko 16y ago

danieldk 16y ago
Given how often I get synchronization conflicts on regular files with Dropbox, I would be quite wary to use it to put and synchronize repositories there. The problem is (obviously) that Dropbox is really a local synchronized folder, so a Git push will only be reflected on Dropbox if there is an opportunity to sync. So, if you have mobile coworkers, it's easy to mess up things. Given that there are many companies who offer repository hosting for just a few dollars per month (also for teams), I cannot see why one would go this route.
- rodh257 16y ago
  I think the main advantage here is the designer doesn't need to learn git, they just work away on a Dropbox folder without knowing it's a git repository. Additionally, the main git repository doesn't need to be in dropbox, just the designers remote.
  - danieldk 16y ago
    As someone else in this thread mentions, I think version management is becoming indispensable for the modern designer, and also feasible given the prevalence of vector graphics. Besides that, there are some great, easy to use git clients (Tower, GitBox, SmartGit). I have non-CS colleagues who adopted git in no-time with SmartGit (for LaTeX documents).
    - gigawatt 16y ago
      > and also feasible given the prevalence of vector graphics. As a designer who has had git on his "To Learn" list for way too long, can you explain what you mean by this?
      - natrius 16y ago
        Version control systems work best when they're dealing with files made up of lines of text. Bitmap images don't have this property, but vector graphics usually do.
      - danieldk 16y ago
        It's twofold: 1. (x)diffs of binary files are usually more expensive than text files. For instance, consider a git-tracked bitmap image where you apply a global filter. If you add the revised image, and every pixel was touched, this will usually result in a large diff. So, git will either store the large diff, or the modified file completely. If you, on the other hand use SVG with filter effects, the application of a filter will just add a few lines of text to an SVG file. This gives a small diff, meaning that the object can be stored compactly. 2. In the SVG scenario, you could easily spot the changes between both revisions of the image with a 'git diff' (since both files are plain-text). In the bitmap scenario, you can only spot the differences visually.
      - gigawatt 16y ago
        Ah, so it's a file-size issue. Thanks to both of you for explaining.
        marcomonteiro 16y ago
        Git, like most versioning systems works by adding a file to a repository. Then subsequent changes are added to the repository by saving only what has changed in the file. In the case of a bitmap image think of a grid made up of pixels. Each pixel is stored on the file as binary data (0's and 1's). Anything that affects that pixel will change it's value in the file. With a vector file there aren't pixels necessarily. The drawing is saved as shapes and those shapes have properties. These shapes and their properties are actually saved as text (sort of like HTML markup). So as the file changes the changes in those various file types are more drastic. With a bitmap there will be greater changes so overall more space is used to store the file and it's history. Also, because it's binary it's difficult to see the changes in the actual file (without opening it in a photo editing program). With a vector file only small amounts of text would be changing and you can literally see the changes in the file and make sense of it. Hope that helps.
yuvadam 16y ago
Do yourself a favor and get a real git repository. Using dropbox is indeed super easy but has two major caveats: 1. Git is agnostic to updates to the repo, as dropbox is not a supported transport method (as opposed to SSH for example). So, for example, git hooks won't work. 2. Dropbox is extremely susceptible to repo corruption in case of simultaneous updates. Restoring a corrupt repo is not a pleasant task. For your sanity - don't do it.
- fryguy 16y ago
  What I usually do is have multiple repos, one per machine I'm working on. This way they are write-once, read-many so you don't ever have dropbox merge conflicts. It's a bit more overhead, but safer. It's even "easier" to get the semantics right in bazaar due to the branch-as-a-folder paradigm rather than a repo-as-a-folder design of git, although I don't really want to devolve to a "my scm is better than your scm" debate.
- doty 16y ago
  I think you missed a point in the post: the designers are NOT using git. When the designers make a change, the designers are not doing a git add. Dropbox is just about getting the assets from the designers to the developers, so that the developers can do the appropriate git operations. Presumably the developers have whatever hooks they want, and they still get run at the appropriate time....
enra 16y ago
At this time and age, I think designers should learn how use git. It's a tool like anything else. Specially if your only concern is updating the images, the process should be pretty straightforward, you don't need to learn anything advanced.
- mtogo 16y ago
  This attitude that everyone should be a programmer bothers me. The designer's job is to design, and it's the programmer's job to integrate the designs. Why don't you learn photoshop and how to do basic design? That way you don't need to ask the designer to do minor tweaks. It doesn't work. If you've never used version control, "just learn git" can be a multi-week project. If you've never done design, "just learn photoshop" is the same. Each person is on a team to do a specific job, let them do their jobs.
  - samlevine 16y ago
    There are guis for git. And in my experience teaching someone (in customer service) how to check in and check out files in an SCM takes about 20 minutes.
  - burke 16y ago
    I both agree and disagree. Git in its simple use case can be pretty simple. If there's a programmer handy to fix things when merges get angry, or things like that, it can be as simple as dropping two scripts on the designer's desktop -- one to commit and push; one to pull. > Why don't you learn photoshop and how to do basic design? That way you don't need to ask the designer to do minor tweaks. I know you're trying to be facetious here, but I think it's actually a good idea. Why bother someone else to make a simple fix (I'm thinking typo-correction level here)?
  - jasongullickson 16y ago
    Maybe after every developer knows how to use git we can expect designers to learn it too. Until that point what you can expect from forcing someone to use a tool that is not central to their workflow is that they will use it as little as possible (if at all), and when it comes to source control, that's a bad thing. If we programmers are so smart we'll make working "our" way easier, not harder.
jhlyerte 16y ago
ONLINE STORE: ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== Air jordan(1-24)shoes $30 Handbags(Coach l v f e n d i d&g) $35 Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $15 Jean(True Religion,ed hardy,coogi) $30 Sunglasses(Oakey,coach,gucci,A r m a i n i) $15 New era cap $12 Bikini (Ed hardy,polo) $20 accept paypal and free shipping ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )====
mullr 16y ago
What's the difference between this and just using github? I think it's just the daemon-ness of dropbox. It would be cool to have something similar for arbitrary git repos that runs 'git fetch' periodically in the background. (or something fancier, if you want to scale it out) That keeps the conflict management at the git level, and you aren't keeping history of history anymore.
- tzs 16y ago
  If you don't want your repositories public, price is a big difference. All of my repositories would fit in 10% of my free Dropbox space. It would cost $100/month to put them on Github. Github's pricing is based on the number of repositories. Dropbox's is based on the amount of storage used.
  - okaramian 16y ago
    You could set up a gitosis server if you have access to your own server of some sort and don't mind administering it. I have a linux VM on my main computer that is accessible to the outside world with gitosis on there and it's pretty great for a private git repo.
    - fr0sty 16y ago
      Gitosis is obsolete. If you are starting frsh, set up gitolite servers instead. Gitolite is actively maintained and has more features and better documentation.
mgrouchy 16y ago
I regularly work across multiple computers(all macs, but 2 desktops and my laptop), so I actually put my virtualenvs in my Dropbox and then they contain git repositories. So I have my full environment installed on all the computers all the time. You do have to install git, virtualenv and pip on all the computers, but thats not too much to ask.
lucasr 16y ago
Hylke Bons wrote a very nice git-based Dropbox alternative with focus on collaboration called SparkleShare (http://www.sparkleshare.org http://www.sparkleshare.org). It's still in beta state but a few members of the GNOME design team are already using it to collaborate.
migueldeicaza 16y ago
The open source SparkleShare gives users the same feel of Dropbox, while using Git as its backing storage: http://www.sparkleshare.org/ http://www.sparkleshare.org/ It currently has native clients for Linux and Mac, with Windows coming soon.
leejoramo 16y ago
What are the real advantages of using version control from the designer point-of-view? In most cases, a good backup system is what they need. Use Apple's Time Machine or Crashplan and backup every 15 minutes automatically. From a programmers point of view VC is great. We actually have the tools to deal with different versions of text files: find differences, resolve conflicts, merge, split off new versions, etc. And designers? What do they get beyond a more complex and opaque form of Backup. Sure it makes it easier to get the designers output into our programmers workflow, but the way this is usually sold is a Pain in the designers backside with no real benefit. If programmers want to win over designers to version control, we need to sell them on real advantages. We need to show them tools like pixelnovel's timeline that integrates SVN diretly into Adobe CS and provides an in app version viewer. Or Kaleidoscope.app which allows the visual comparison of image (and text!) files. http://pixelnovel.com/ (SVN only) http://www.kaleidoscopeapp.com/ (Git, Mercurial, SVN & Bazaar) However, even these tools only scratch the surface of the power that programmers gain from the pain of version control.
- cpeterso 16y ago
  Designers need more than just backup. They work with binary files that would need specialized diff and merge tools. They need to share files with (non-technical) clients. PixelNovel looks interesting, but it seems mostly focused on "timelines" for single users, not teams.
flexterra 16y ago
Super cool idea. I will try this with a client's design team. They already use and love dropbox.

83 points by dko 16y ago

Given how often I get synchronization conflicts on regular files with Dropbox, I would be quite wary to use it to put and synchronize repositories there. The problem is (obviously) that Dropbox is really a local synchronized folder, so a Git push will only be reflected on Dropbox if there is an opportunity to sync. So, if you have mobile coworkers, it's easy to mess up things. Given that there are many companies who offer repository hosting for just a few dollars per month (also for teams), I cannot see why one would go this route.

rodh257 16y ago
I think the main advantage here is the designer doesn't need to learn git, they just work away on a Dropbox folder without knowing it's a git repository. Additionally, the main git repository doesn't need to be in dropbox, just the designers remote.
- danieldk 16y ago
  As someone else in this thread mentions, I think version management is becoming indispensable for the modern designer, and also feasible given the prevalence of vector graphics. Besides that, there are some great, easy to use git clients (Tower, GitBox, SmartGit). I have non-CS colleagues who adopted git in no-time with SmartGit (for LaTeX documents).
  - gigawatt 16y ago
    > and also feasible given the prevalence of vector graphics. As a designer who has had git on his "To Learn" list for way too long, can you explain what you mean by this?
    - natrius 16y ago
      Version control systems work best when they're dealing with files made up of lines of text. Bitmap images don't have this property, but vector graphics usually do.
    - danieldk 16y ago
      It's twofold: 1. (x)diffs of binary files are usually more expensive than text files. For instance, consider a git-tracked bitmap image where you apply a global filter. If you add the revised image, and every pixel was touched, this will usually result in a large diff. So, git will either store the large diff, or the modified file completely. If you, on the other hand use SVG with filter effects, the application of a filter will just add a few lines of text to an SVG file. This gives a small diff, meaning that the object can be stored compactly. 2. In the SVG scenario, you could easily spot the changes between both revisions of the image with a 'git diff' (since both files are plain-text). In the bitmap scenario, you can only spot the differences visually.
    - gigawatt 16y ago
      Ah, so it's a file-size issue. Thanks to both of you for explaining.
      - marcomonteiro 16y ago
        Git, like most versioning systems works by adding a file to a repository. Then subsequent changes are added to the repository by saving only what has changed in the file. In the case of a bitmap image think of a grid made up of pixels. Each pixel is stored on the file as binary data (0's and 1's). Anything that affects that pixel will change it's value in the file. With a vector file there aren't pixels necessarily. The drawing is saved as shapes and those shapes have properties. These shapes and their properties are actually saved as text (sort of like HTML markup). So as the file changes the changes in those various file types are more drastic. With a bitmap there will be greater changes so overall more space is used to store the file and it's history. Also, because it's binary it's difficult to see the changes in the actual file (without opening it in a photo editing program). With a vector file only small amounts of text would be changing and you can literally see the changes in the file and make sense of it. Hope that helps.

yuvadam 16y ago

Do yourself a favor and get a real git repository. Using dropbox is indeed super easy but has two major caveats: 1. Git is agnostic to updates to the repo, as dropbox is not a supported transport method (as opposed to SSH for example). So, for example, git hooks won't work. 2. Dropbox is extremely susceptible to repo corruption in case of simultaneous updates. Restoring a corrupt repo is not a pleasant task. For your sanity - don't do it.

fryguy 16y ago
What I usually do is have multiple repos, one per machine I'm working on. This way they are write-once, read-many so you don't ever have dropbox merge conflicts. It's a bit more overhead, but safer. It's even "easier" to get the semantics right in bazaar due to the branch-as-a-folder paradigm rather than a repo-as-a-folder design of git, although I don't really want to devolve to a "my scm is better than your scm" debate.
doty 16y ago
I think you missed a point in the post: the designers are NOT using git. When the designers make a change, the designers are not doing a git add. Dropbox is just about getting the assets from the designers to the developers, so that the developers can do the appropriate git operations. Presumably the developers have whatever hooks they want, and they still get run at the appropriate time....

enra 16y ago

At this time and age, I think designers should learn how use git. It's a tool like anything else. Specially if your only concern is updating the images, the process should be pretty straightforward, you don't need to learn anything advanced.

mtogo 16y ago
This attitude that everyone should be a programmer bothers me. The designer's job is to design, and it's the programmer's job to integrate the designs. Why don't you learn photoshop and how to do basic design? That way you don't need to ask the designer to do minor tweaks. It doesn't work. If you've never used version control, "just learn git" can be a multi-week project. If you've never done design, "just learn photoshop" is the same. Each person is on a team to do a specific job, let them do their jobs.
- samlevine 16y ago
  There are guis for git. And in my experience teaching someone (in customer service) how to check in and check out files in an SCM takes about 20 minutes.
- burke 16y ago
  I both agree and disagree. Git in its simple use case can be pretty simple. If there's a programmer handy to fix things when merges get angry, or things like that, it can be as simple as dropping two scripts on the designer's desktop -- one to commit and push; one to pull. > Why don't you learn photoshop and how to do basic design? That way you don't need to ask the designer to do minor tweaks. I know you're trying to be facetious here, but I think it's actually a good idea. Why bother someone else to make a simple fix (I'm thinking typo-correction level here)?
- jasongullickson 16y ago
  Maybe after every developer knows how to use git we can expect designers to learn it too. Until that point what you can expect from forcing someone to use a tool that is not central to their workflow is that they will use it as little as possible (if at all), and when it comes to source control, that's a bad thing. If we programmers are so smart we'll make working "our" way easier, not harder.

jhlyerte 16y ago

ONLINE STORE: ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== Air jordan(1-24)shoes $30 Handbags(Coach l v f e n d i d&g) $35 Tshirts (Polo ,ed hardy,lacoste) $15 Jean(True Religion,ed hardy,coogi) $30 Sunglasses(Oakey,coach,gucci,A r m a i n i) $15 New era cap $12 Bikini (Ed hardy,polo) $20 accept paypal and free shipping ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )==== ====( http://www.fullmalls.com http://www.fullmalls.com )====

mullr 16y ago

What's the difference between this and just using github? I think it's just the daemon-ness of dropbox. It would be cool to have something similar for arbitrary git repos that runs 'git fetch' periodically in the background. (or something fancier, if you want to scale it out) That keeps the conflict management at the git level, and you aren't keeping history of history anymore.

tzs 16y ago
If you don't want your repositories public, price is a big difference. All of my repositories would fit in 10% of my free Dropbox space. It would cost $100/month to put them on Github. Github's pricing is based on the number of repositories. Dropbox's is based on the amount of storage used.
- okaramian 16y ago
  You could set up a gitosis server if you have access to your own server of some sort and don't mind administering it. I have a linux VM on my main computer that is accessible to the outside world with gitosis on there and it's pretty great for a private git repo.
  - fr0sty 16y ago
    Gitosis is obsolete. If you are starting frsh, set up gitolite servers instead. Gitolite is actively maintained and has more features and better documentation.

mgrouchy 16y ago

I regularly work across multiple computers(all macs, but 2 desktops and my laptop), so I actually put my virtualenvs in my Dropbox and then they contain git repositories. So I have my full environment installed on all the computers all the time. You do have to install git, virtualenv and pip on all the computers, but thats not too much to ask.

lucasr 16y ago

Hylke Bons wrote a very nice git-based Dropbox alternative with focus on collaboration called SparkleShare (http://www.sparkleshare.org http://www.sparkleshare.org). It's still in beta state but a few members of the GNOME design team are already using it to collaborate.

migueldeicaza 16y ago

The open source SparkleShare gives users the same feel of Dropbox, while using Git as its backing storage: http://www.sparkleshare.org/ http://www.sparkleshare.org/ It currently has native clients for Linux and Mac, with Windows coming soon.

leejoramo 16y ago

What are the real advantages of using version control from the designer point-of-view? In most cases, a good backup system is what they need. Use Apple's Time Machine or Crashplan and backup every 15 minutes automatically. From a programmers point of view VC is great. We actually have the tools to deal with different versions of text files: find differences, resolve conflicts, merge, split off new versions, etc. And designers? What do they get beyond a more complex and opaque form of Backup. Sure it makes it easier to get the designers output into our programmers workflow, but the way this is usually sold is a Pain in the designers backside with no real benefit. If programmers want to win over designers to version control, we need to sell them on real advantages. We need to show them tools like pixelnovel's timeline that integrates SVN diretly into Adobe CS and provides an in app version viewer. Or Kaleidoscope.app which allows the visual comparison of image (and text!) files. http://pixelnovel.com/ (SVN only) http://www.kaleidoscopeapp.com/ (Git, Mercurial, SVN & Bazaar) However, even these tools only scratch the surface of the power that programmers gain from the pain of version control.

cpeterso 16y ago
Designers need more than just backup. They work with binary files that would need specialized diff and merge tools. They need to share files with (non-technical) clients. PixelNovel looks interesting, but it seems mostly focused on "timelines" for single users, not teams.

flexterra 16y ago

Super cool idea. I will try this with a client's design team. They already use and love dropbox.