4 ms·

I just love that Asian developers finally 'discovered' the English speaking FOSS community. A lot of the software I use and contribute to has gained many contr

by phre4k 6y ago

I just love that Asian developers finally 'discovered' the English speaking FOSS community. A lot of the software I use and contribute to has gained many contributors from China, Singapore and Japan through the last 1-2 years. It really warms my heart to see that FOSS knows less and less borders :)

mindfulhack 6y ago
It especially does because people think that being against 'Chinese apps' like TikTok is 'sinophobia', when really we love Chinese people it's just the government we don't trust. So it really does makes it special to see those Chinese characters in that README. I want to see more of that. But I also immediately feel concern. I hope this Shanghai developer is not targeted, bullied, or persecuted in any way like having their money seized. Damn. Just donated to their PayPal because I feel so encouraged by it.
- ddorian43 6y ago
  I always see this, we love the people but not the government. Is there a case where we hate the people ? Are people as a collective harmless.l ?
  - phre4k 6y ago
    Racists exist. They hate people.
    - ddorian43 6y ago
      I'm not talking about races. Mostly big groups, like countries, which don't have to be races.
- altindag 6y ago
  I think this is bullshit. It's like saying, "I'm not racist, my friend Bob is black." You don't get a "get outta jail free" card for saying "I love CHinese people" and "oorah for China devs" and then heaping shit all over their country's achievements the rest of the time. Do people who say this think they understand China or Chinese people even a little bit?
  - mindfulhack 6y ago
    > and then heaping shit all over their country's achievements the rest of the time. I didn't say that anywhere. China's achieved a lot, in amazing ways. My comment said nothing about that. > Do people who say this think they understand China or Chinese people even a little bit? - Have you been to China, invited by their government in an official delegation and seen first-hand the mob-like lack of distinction between business and government, the nepotism, and the opaque vista of corruption, like I have? - Have you had more than one Chinese national as a romantic partner, like I have? - Have you worked and studied extra-curricularly with Chinese people for much of of your life, like I have? - Have you learned Mandarin at age 18, like I have? I think I "understand China or Chinese people" more than the average non-Chinese person. But even that I think doesn't count for much. Chinese people don't share their real cultural opinions with people in the West much, including my ex-partners. I still have lots more to learn about the very contrasting popular opinions there and slowly understand some of it. I respectfully listen to pro-government Chinese people who occasionally appear on HN, and engage with them with an open mind, though with no concession granted in regards to expectation of intellectual honesty. Recently in my comment history, there's one such conversation. I gave a very unforgiving rebuttal to their comment, but I respected them by not just downvoting, but engaging. We really should talk more. It appears you're a non-Chinese person who's been triggered by my comment based on other experiences. I really invite you to not 'other' individual people like me as faceless "people" like you just did. In contrast, it would have been great to hear from a thoughtful Chinese person.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - browsergap 6y ago
      Triggered sounds like irrational and unhinged so...if it's what you need to say about other people's views to (in your mind) censor them and protect your own views, I get it, but I'm afraid it makes you a less trustworthy assessor! It sounds like you've confused "identity" with opinion. I wasn't saying, "you are bullshit", and I'm sorry that you seem to have taken it like that. I was saying "I think that (view you write) is bullshit". I wasn't trying to offend you. But also, to assume that had I had the experiences you list, I would arrive at your conclusion is incredibly narrow minded (and, to be honest, arrogant), and makes me trust even less that you would be able to see beyond the nose of your existing biases and consider others with different views... Because it's a big world out there, plenty of room for differences of opinion and experience. The false dichotomy between "the Chinese state/government and the Chinese people" is a common Western propaganda tactic I've noticed to, exactly as I said, seem like you're not being racist when you are. And, unfortunately for you, god bless you, you've done exactly as I predicted, "I'm not racist because look at all the connections I have" You didn't go on to criticize anything beside saying you don't "trust" the government, but I'm great at reading between the lines, and reading people and I know the type of argument you're hinting at and where it goes. It reminds me that people don't hold these anti-China views from ignorance, simply because they've carried a Western-propaganda mindset into their own affairs. It seems like in your jaunts you forgot to check your pre-existing biases at the door/luggage-check counter. Which, so far, has meant, not that you don't have enough experiences to think about and understand China, but only that you've so far failed to properly think about them, being blinded by your biases. So far, you've wasted those experiences you have by not yet thinking clearly about them. I'm not sure where you're from (and I don't care here because it doesn't matter, like it doesn't matter where I'm from or who I am, what matters is the quality of my thought and my ability to think clearly, critically and for myself, as I hope you can too), but here's a video of a white dude saying something that is mostly correct. I don't know him nor anything else about him but this is about right: https://twitter.com/chinascio/status/1299172383027200001 https://twitter.com/chinascio/status/1299172383027200001
rawfan 6y ago
Me, too. Seafile is another good example. Gogs was great nbut the sbdfl went awol too often. Its fork Gitea still has many Chinese devs, though and is one of my favorite projects with Asian roots.
- phre4k 6y ago
  What's a sbdfl? I used Seafile and it's great but it has a pretty hard paywall. Gitea is just great. In conjunction with Drone it's the most elegant CI/CD platform I know.
robjan 6y ago
English is the primary language in Singapore
- phre4k 6y ago
  Yes, and there are more developers on Github from Singapore now than a few years ago (in my perception). I wonder what platform they used before but I don't know any of them personally. I only read their Github bios.
nirui 6y ago
On the other hand, if an Asian developer uses English by default, then you probably wouldn't notice them :P
- phre4k 6y ago
  Asians should not forget their roots. I love to see docs and READMEs in more than one language!
numpad0 6y ago
Took me a while to get this one — so people from communist China don’t cover their origins, for they’re from a completely isolate culture or being bold in a way, or whatever, and put Chinese readme high up and front, or talk in clearly Chinese grammar, whereas other non-European devs tries to stay under the radar and blend in as a generic non-native English speaker. Isn’t that it? I mean, I’m a Japanese but how I notice a developer is a good fellow countrymen is usually through noticing telltale signs and chasing them down, not because there’s a filename in the language I speak at the root of a repository.
- phre4k 6y ago
  If I see more than one language in a repo or the developers' names sound foreign to me, I'm more likely to check out their profile. I always love to find out more about (development) culture in other parts of the world. Can you elaborate a bit on how it's 'bold' to use your own language in a README or docs? Do you find it annoying?

by phre4k 6y ago

mindfulhack 6y ago

It especially does because people think that being against 'Chinese apps' like TikTok is 'sinophobia', when really we love Chinese people it's just the government we don't trust. So it really does makes it special to see those Chinese characters in that README. I want to see more of that. But I also immediately feel concern. I hope this Shanghai developer is not targeted, bullied, or persecuted in any way like having their money seized. Damn. Just donated to their PayPal because I feel so encouraged by it.

ddorian43 6y ago
I always see this, we love the people but not the government. Is there a case where we hate the people ? Are people as a collective harmless.l ?
- phre4k 6y ago
  Racists exist. They hate people.
  - ddorian43 6y ago
    I'm not talking about races. Mostly big groups, like countries, which don't have to be races.
altindag 6y ago
I think this is bullshit. It's like saying, "I'm not racist, my friend Bob is black." You don't get a "get outta jail free" card for saying "I love CHinese people" and "oorah for China devs" and then heaping shit all over their country's achievements the rest of the time. Do people who say this think they understand China or Chinese people even a little bit?
- mindfulhack 6y ago
  > and then heaping shit all over their country's achievements the rest of the time. I didn't say that anywhere. China's achieved a lot, in amazing ways. My comment said nothing about that. > Do people who say this think they understand China or Chinese people even a little bit? - Have you been to China, invited by their government in an official delegation and seen first-hand the mob-like lack of distinction between business and government, the nepotism, and the opaque vista of corruption, like I have? - Have you had more than one Chinese national as a romantic partner, like I have? - Have you worked and studied extra-curricularly with Chinese people for much of of your life, like I have? - Have you learned Mandarin at age 18, like I have? I think I "understand China or Chinese people" more than the average non-Chinese person. But even that I think doesn't count for much. Chinese people don't share their real cultural opinions with people in the West much, including my ex-partners. I still have lots more to learn about the very contrasting popular opinions there and slowly understand some of it. I respectfully listen to pro-government Chinese people who occasionally appear on HN, and engage with them with an open mind, though with no concession granted in regards to expectation of intellectual honesty. Recently in my comment history, there's one such conversation. I gave a very unforgiving rebuttal to their comment, but I respected them by not just downvoting, but engaging. We really should talk more. It appears you're a non-Chinese person who's been triggered by my comment based on other experiences. I really invite you to not 'other' individual people like me as faceless "people" like you just did. In contrast, it would have been great to hear from a thoughtful Chinese person.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - browsergap 6y ago
    Triggered sounds like irrational and unhinged so...if it's what you need to say about other people's views to (in your mind) censor them and protect your own views, I get it, but I'm afraid it makes you a less trustworthy assessor! It sounds like you've confused "identity" with opinion. I wasn't saying, "you are bullshit", and I'm sorry that you seem to have taken it like that. I was saying "I think that (view you write) is bullshit". I wasn't trying to offend you. But also, to assume that had I had the experiences you list, I would arrive at your conclusion is incredibly narrow minded (and, to be honest, arrogant), and makes me trust even less that you would be able to see beyond the nose of your existing biases and consider others with different views... Because it's a big world out there, plenty of room for differences of opinion and experience. The false dichotomy between "the Chinese state/government and the Chinese people" is a common Western propaganda tactic I've noticed to, exactly as I said, seem like you're not being racist when you are. And, unfortunately for you, god bless you, you've done exactly as I predicted, "I'm not racist because look at all the connections I have" You didn't go on to criticize anything beside saying you don't "trust" the government, but I'm great at reading between the lines, and reading people and I know the type of argument you're hinting at and where it goes. It reminds me that people don't hold these anti-China views from ignorance, simply because they've carried a Western-propaganda mindset into their own affairs. It seems like in your jaunts you forgot to check your pre-existing biases at the door/luggage-check counter. Which, so far, has meant, not that you don't have enough experiences to think about and understand China, but only that you've so far failed to properly think about them, being blinded by your biases. So far, you've wasted those experiences you have by not yet thinking clearly about them. I'm not sure where you're from (and I don't care here because it doesn't matter, like it doesn't matter where I'm from or who I am, what matters is the quality of my thought and my ability to think clearly, critically and for myself, as I hope you can too), but here's a video of a white dude saying something that is mostly correct. I don't know him nor anything else about him but this is about right: https://twitter.com/chinascio/status/1299172383027200001 https://twitter.com/chinascio/status/1299172383027200001

rawfan 6y ago

Me, too. Seafile is another good example. Gogs was great nbut the sbdfl went awol too often. Its fork Gitea still has many Chinese devs, though and is one of my favorite projects with Asian roots.

phre4k 6y ago
What's a sbdfl? I used Seafile and it's great but it has a pretty hard paywall. Gitea is just great. In conjunction with Drone it's the most elegant CI/CD platform I know.

robjan 6y ago

English is the primary language in Singapore

phre4k 6y ago
Yes, and there are more developers on Github from Singapore now than a few years ago (in my perception). I wonder what platform they used before but I don't know any of them personally. I only read their Github bios.

nirui 6y ago

On the other hand, if an Asian developer uses English by default, then you probably wouldn't notice them :P

phre4k 6y ago
Asians should not forget their roots. I love to see docs and READMEs in more than one language!

numpad0 6y ago

Took me a while to get this one — so people from communist China don’t cover their origins, for they’re from a completely isolate culture or being bold in a way, or whatever, and put Chinese readme high up and front, or talk in clearly Chinese grammar, whereas other non-European devs tries to stay under the radar and blend in as a generic non-native English speaker. Isn’t that it? I mean, I’m a Japanese but how I notice a developer is a good fellow countrymen is usually through noticing telltale signs and chasing them down, not because there’s a filename in the language I speak at the root of a repository.

phre4k 6y ago
If I see more than one language in a repo or the developers' names sound foreign to me, I'm more likely to check out their profile. I always love to find out more about (development) culture in other parts of the world. Can you elaborate a bit on how it's 'bold' to use your own language in a README or docs? Do you find it annoying?