6 ms·

I don't get this feature. And I really hate that it's present in pretty much every browser these days. If I want to type an URL, I'll use the address bar. If I

by elric 6y ago

I don't get this feature. And I really hate that it's present in pretty much every browser these days. If I want to type an URL, I'll use the address bar. If I want to search, I'll use the search bar. Different bars with different keyboard shortcuts and different purposes. Why do so many browsers merge these two? Screens are insanely wide these days, so screen real estate can't be the reason. Are we trying to trick users into thinking that URLs aren't a thing anymore? Maybe this "omnibox" doesn't know whether I want to enter a hostname or a search term, but I do.

tasogare 6y ago
> Screens are insanely wide these days This is not relevant for URL or search bars since they need to be displayed horizontally. Separate bars means less vertical screen space, which is still scarce.
- ebg13 6y ago
  > This is not relevant for URL or search bars since they need to be displayed horizontally Need? Has anyone tried?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - tasogare 6y ago
    Good luck reading anything in latin script with a one-character wide vertical search bar. This would works for Chinese (that’s the traditional writing orientation) but definitely not for most other languages.
  - Arnt 6y ago
    I've seen it, back around 1999, possibly konqueror? Something that let you drag around toolbars and if you moved the address bar to the left/right side it would change the direction of writing. Let's say that testing it briefly was enough. Editing tilted text works up to around 45 degrees, steeper than that is a strain.
- elric 6y ago
  My search bar is next to my URL bar, both are big enough and it has no impact on vertical space. I don't think I've seen any browsers where the two bars are stacked vertically.
- jaxn 6y ago
  Insanely wide means that you can have two inputs on the same row without vertical impact. That's how it used to be. (I think the omnibox is the right UI though)
- dfox 6y ago
  See this: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Firefox_1.0.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Firefox_1.0.png In firefox preferences there still is an option to switch to old layout with two bars. Sadly it does exactly the same thing as adding search bar manually, that is gives you second redundant search bar and does not turn off search support in the original url bar.
  - tasogare 6y ago
    Oh yes, I remember that. I don’t miss it at all, save for the annoying behavior of single bar when a search contains dot (e.g. searching for a dotnet namespace). While the single bar is my preference I agree that more choice should be given to the end user. Google is trying to hard to shovel the changes that benefit them than addressing user’s needs (obvious example being AMP).
g2347890 6y ago
all technically deprived people I have seen, use none of the above, the first thing they do is open google (most have it nowadays in defult tab page) and they type the URLs given to them there, no one knows about address/search bar, and if some know, they expect it to work like the google search box Update: I hide some site of mine from google, I do not care about SE traffic and block any crawler, and I have noticed when I give some people I know a URL from that site, they often tell me that it cannot be found, given google search they use all the time does not list it
- tgv 6y ago
  I've seen other weird behavior, even from people with a fair bit of computer experience. Techie instinct is not the right basis for making UI decisions.
- elric 6y ago
  Isn't that just a matter of educating users? Users, contrary to popular belief, are not stupid. Everyone starts off knowing nothing at all, but we can teach them what an address is and we can teach them how to search for things.
  - Shared404 6y ago
    > Users, contrary to popular belief, are not stupid. "I don't care about learning, I just want it to work." "Why do I care again?" "Just make it do it right." "Can you come fix the CPU again?" (Speaking about PC, with the difference explained multiple times previously.) "Can you come fix the computer again?" (Same person speaking about monitor. Difference also explained previously.) These are all actual quotes from Friends/Family/Co-workers
    - 0xdeadb00f 6y ago
      Ignorance isn't stupidity. But it may be classified as stupid to purposefully remain ignorant so idk. But I do see your point.
Semaphor 6y ago
On FF it’s Ctrl+k for searching (by prepending `? `) and Ctrl+l for addresses (if it can be parsed as an address). I almost never just click into the bar, so that works fine for me.
- HALtheWise 6y ago
  This works in Chrome too
  - MaxBarraclough 6y ago
    I just tried this, and it doesn't do as I'd hoped. ctrl l does not force Chrome to resolve the term through DNS, it may still run a Google search. If you want http://mylocalserver http://mylocalserver you have to include the http:// http:// or Chrome will Google for mylocalserver.
ubercow13 6y ago
Firefox's omnibox is probably my favourite feature, it's so much better than separate bars. The reason is that it also searches within your bookmarks and history for items matching the terms you enter. At least half the time when I use the location bar, I am looking for a site I have been to before or bookmarked, and it will pop up as the first result in the suggestions. If nothing is found, it makes sense to fall back to a web search a lot of the time. How would this work with separate bars? Surely the history should be searched when typing in the location bar, but then you couldn't fall back to searching the web. Also, when looking for that site in my history, I might be typing part of the URL or part of the page title, so it is ambiguous whether it's a URL or search. Even if I am typing part of the URL, if it turns out nothing is found in my history, it might make sense to continue with the same terms as a web search instead of me trying to remember or form a whole URL from memory. Chrome's implementation is terrible as it's designed to just funnel you into Google search, and doesn't give you a good idea of how useful it can be.
- elric 6y ago
  I agree that that's the least painful implementation. But last time I tried FF mobile, the behaviour had changed and it was giving me search suggestions (as in actively contacting a search engine as I was typing), with no way to turn it off. That's a deal breaker for me. If I want to search in just my history, I can simply press CTRL-H and type to search in history.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

by elric 6y ago

tasogare 6y ago

> Screens are insanely wide these days This is not relevant for URL or search bars since they need to be displayed horizontally. Separate bars means less vertical screen space, which is still scarce.

ebg13 6y ago
> This is not relevant for URL or search bars since they need to be displayed horizontally Need? Has anyone tried?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- tasogare 6y ago
  Good luck reading anything in latin script with a one-character wide vertical search bar. This would works for Chinese (that’s the traditional writing orientation) but definitely not for most other languages.
- Arnt 6y ago
  I've seen it, back around 1999, possibly konqueror? Something that let you drag around toolbars and if you moved the address bar to the left/right side it would change the direction of writing. Let's say that testing it briefly was enough. Editing tilted text works up to around 45 degrees, steeper than that is a strain.
elric 6y ago
My search bar is next to my URL bar, both are big enough and it has no impact on vertical space. I don't think I've seen any browsers where the two bars are stacked vertically.
jaxn 6y ago
Insanely wide means that you can have two inputs on the same row without vertical impact. That's how it used to be. (I think the omnibox is the right UI though)
dfox 6y ago
See this: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Firefox_1.0.png https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Firefox_1.0.png In firefox preferences there still is an option to switch to old layout with two bars. Sadly it does exactly the same thing as adding search bar manually, that is gives you second redundant search bar and does not turn off search support in the original url bar.
- tasogare 6y ago
  Oh yes, I remember that. I don’t miss it at all, save for the annoying behavior of single bar when a search contains dot (e.g. searching for a dotnet namespace). While the single bar is my preference I agree that more choice should be given to the end user. Google is trying to hard to shovel the changes that benefit them than addressing user’s needs (obvious example being AMP).

g2347890 6y ago

all technically deprived people I have seen, use none of the above, the first thing they do is open google (most have it nowadays in defult tab page) and they type the URLs given to them there, no one knows about address/search bar, and if some know, they expect it to work like the google search box Update: I hide some site of mine from google, I do not care about SE traffic and block any crawler, and I have noticed when I give some people I know a URL from that site, they often tell me that it cannot be found, given google search they use all the time does not list it

tgv 6y ago
I've seen other weird behavior, even from people with a fair bit of computer experience. Techie instinct is not the right basis for making UI decisions.
elric 6y ago
Isn't that just a matter of educating users? Users, contrary to popular belief, are not stupid. Everyone starts off knowing nothing at all, but we can teach them what an address is and we can teach them how to search for things.
- Shared404 6y ago
  > Users, contrary to popular belief, are not stupid. "I don't care about learning, I just want it to work." "Why do I care again?" "Just make it do it right." "Can you come fix the CPU again?" (Speaking about PC, with the difference explained multiple times previously.) "Can you come fix the computer again?" (Same person speaking about monitor. Difference also explained previously.) These are all actual quotes from Friends/Family/Co-workers
  - 0xdeadb00f 6y ago
    Ignorance isn't stupidity. But it may be classified as stupid to purposefully remain ignorant so idk. But I do see your point.

Semaphor 6y ago

On FF it’s Ctrl+k for searching (by prepending `? `) and Ctrl+l for addresses (if it can be parsed as an address). I almost never just click into the bar, so that works fine for me.

HALtheWise 6y ago
This works in Chrome too
- MaxBarraclough 6y ago
  I just tried this, and it doesn't do as I'd hoped. ctrl l does not force Chrome to resolve the term through DNS, it may still run a Google search. If you want http://mylocalserver http://mylocalserver you have to include the http:// http:// or Chrome will Google for mylocalserver.

ubercow13 6y ago

Firefox's omnibox is probably my favourite feature, it's so much better than separate bars. The reason is that it also searches within your bookmarks and history for items matching the terms you enter. At least half the time when I use the location bar, I am looking for a site I have been to before or bookmarked, and it will pop up as the first result in the suggestions. If nothing is found, it makes sense to fall back to a web search a lot of the time. How would this work with separate bars? Surely the history should be searched when typing in the location bar, but then you couldn't fall back to searching the web. Also, when looking for that site in my history, I might be typing part of the URL or part of the page title, so it is ambiguous whether it's a URL or search. Even if I am typing part of the URL, if it turns out nothing is found in my history, it might make sense to continue with the same terms as a web search instead of me trying to remember or form a whole URL from memory. Chrome's implementation is terrible as it's designed to just funnel you into Google search, and doesn't give you a good idea of how useful it can be.

elric 6y ago
I agree that that's the least painful implementation. But last time I tried FF mobile, the behaviour had changed and it was giving me search suggestions (as in actively contacting a search engine as I was typing), with no way to turn it off. That's a deal breaker for me. If I want to search in just my history, I can simply press CTRL-H and type to search in history.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]