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> other than when the drivers choose to work. That's not true. What about who else they can work for? That's not enforced either. Which other businesses commo

by neosat 6y ago

> other than when the drivers choose to work. That's not true. What about who else they can work for? That's not enforced either. Which other businesses commonly allow people to work when they want, work for whatever competition they want, take any amount of 'vacation' in between? You're fitting something new into an existing category by handwaving away lot of important nuance, when it is exactly this nuance that makes a ton of difference and why the new type of work may not fit into an existing category.

URSpider94 6y ago
At least in California, an employer has virtually no say about who you work for in your off hours. If you want to work for McDonald’s 9-5 and Wendy’s 6-midnight, it’s nobody’s business but yours.
- sida 6y ago
  But while you are working at macdonalds you cannot simultaneously be working for KFC. That’s what a uber/lyft drivers do
  - sixstringtheory 6y ago
    I don’t believe a driver viewing the available riders is “working” any more than someone looking at prices in the apps to ride are “riding” until they accept a fare. People interview at many jobs simultaneously, bid on multiple contracts simultaneously, but they are not _working_ them simultaneously until an agreement is made. So unless a driver has a rider from lyft and a rider from uber in the car at the same time, they are not simultaneously working for both. That being said I don’t know if there is some employment or contract law that makes me wrong, or even just terms laid out by uber or lyft.
    - sida 6y ago
      Right so your point is that the driver is only an employee while on a trip. And while waiting for a trip, the driver is not an employee? I am sure uber/lyft will be more than happy to pay minimum wage if the wage only counts when a trip begins. But the reason the companies are against the law is because the law requires minimum wage while the driver is not driving too. Which means that a driver could actually get 2 minimum wages at the same time while driving for both uber/lyft. But of course that won’t happen. Uber/lyft will ban driving for competitor. Set up shifts such that every driver drives 37.5 hours a week. It is simply not worth the hassle of paying all these benefits for drivers who log in for an hour a day at random times.
      - sixstringtheory 6y ago
        > Right so your point is that the driver is only an employee while on a trip. And while waiting for a trip, the driver is not an employee? I think I agree with this. Seems like you could still have the traditional, if not archaic, model where they are paid by hour of work, and simply track the time they spend en route to pick up and while driving, in place of or combination with however it's worked out today. _How much_ they pay per hour of driving I think will still be subject to the usual market forces. Same for restrictive covenants. Uber and Lyft aren't just competing for customers, they're also competing for labor. But this is all I think orthogonal to the question of "what is the true nature of the relationship between the companies and the drivers," you're talking about outcomes of possible answers that should not have bearing on what the answer is.
CPLX 6y ago
The agricultural business. If you live in California and eat fruit you’re one degree away from it. Piecework is neither uncommon or novel. There are a million other examples. Silicon Valley sure likes to resurrect depression era business models (piecework, SRO’s, renting out spare rooms, housekeeping and errand services for the wealthy) and call it innovation.

by neosat 6y ago

URSpider94 6y ago

At least in California, an employer has virtually no say about who you work for in your off hours. If you want to work for McDonald’s 9-5 and Wendy’s 6-midnight, it’s nobody’s business but yours.

sida 6y ago
But while you are working at macdonalds you cannot simultaneously be working for KFC. That’s what a uber/lyft drivers do
- sixstringtheory 6y ago
  I don’t believe a driver viewing the available riders is “working” any more than someone looking at prices in the apps to ride are “riding” until they accept a fare. People interview at many jobs simultaneously, bid on multiple contracts simultaneously, but they are not _working_ them simultaneously until an agreement is made. So unless a driver has a rider from lyft and a rider from uber in the car at the same time, they are not simultaneously working for both. That being said I don’t know if there is some employment or contract law that makes me wrong, or even just terms laid out by uber or lyft.
  - sida 6y ago
    Right so your point is that the driver is only an employee while on a trip. And while waiting for a trip, the driver is not an employee? I am sure uber/lyft will be more than happy to pay minimum wage if the wage only counts when a trip begins. But the reason the companies are against the law is because the law requires minimum wage while the driver is not driving too. Which means that a driver could actually get 2 minimum wages at the same time while driving for both uber/lyft. But of course that won’t happen. Uber/lyft will ban driving for competitor. Set up shifts such that every driver drives 37.5 hours a week. It is simply not worth the hassle of paying all these benefits for drivers who log in for an hour a day at random times.
    - sixstringtheory 6y ago
      > Right so your point is that the driver is only an employee while on a trip. And while waiting for a trip, the driver is not an employee? I think I agree with this. Seems like you could still have the traditional, if not archaic, model where they are paid by hour of work, and simply track the time they spend en route to pick up and while driving, in place of or combination with however it's worked out today. _How much_ they pay per hour of driving I think will still be subject to the usual market forces. Same for restrictive covenants. Uber and Lyft aren't just competing for customers, they're also competing for labor. But this is all I think orthogonal to the question of "what is the true nature of the relationship between the companies and the drivers," you're talking about outcomes of possible answers that should not have bearing on what the answer is.

CPLX 6y ago

The agricultural business. If you live in California and eat fruit you’re one degree away from it. Piecework is neither uncommon or novel. There are a million other examples. Silicon Valley sure likes to resurrect depression era business models (piecework, SRO’s, renting out spare rooms, housekeeping and errand services for the wealthy) and call it innovation.