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This is maybe a tangent, but do these ML-powered recommendation algorithms actually, like, work well for people? I use both YouTube and Netflix pretty extensiv

This is maybe a tangent, but do these ML-powered recommendation algorithms actually, like, work well for people? I use both YouTube and Netflix pretty extensively. These companies are both held up as ML success stories. But, at least in my personal experience, they suck! My front-page feeds consist of (1) content that the platform knows I have already seen because IT IS IN MY WATCH HISTORY, (2) content that is trivially related, like by having the the same channel/director/actors, and (3) random junk I have no interest in watching and always regret clicking on. It's not that the content isn't out there -- I'm able to find stuff I like through "big spreadsheet of all the Netflix movies" websites, online recommendations from humans, and YouTube channel crossovers/cameos. But I've never had that magical "the algorithm knows you better than you know yourself" experience that every ML engineer I've ever spoken to seems to be convinced their systems achieve. Are all ML engineers mindless drones with exactly average movie preferences, or am I some kind of incomprehensible weirdo?

SifJar 6y ago
> random junk I have no interest in watching and always regret clicking on if you regret clicking on it, that means you did click on it and the recommendation did it's job; remember that the job of the recommendation engine is not (directly) to suggest content you'll like, it's to suggest content that will get you to click. Ideally those goals would be aligned, but not necessarily. YouTube is simply incentivised (via ad revenue) to get you to click on as many videos as possible.
- csande17 6y ago
  At least in my case, it's not that I'm constantly clicking on things that it turns out I dislike. Rather, it's that the few times I have clicked on a recommendation (because hey, maybe they know something I don't, maybe Sonic the Hedgehog actually is a good suggestion for people who liked Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind), I've regretted it.
  - SifJar 6y ago
    Right, but my point is that from YouTube's perspective it doesn't "matter" if you like or dislike the video, if they can get you to click. And clearly this strategy works on some people, or they wouldn't be doing it. So while it may not be overly successful on you (i.e. you only click occasionally), if it works on a significant portion of people it could still be a successful strategy overall.
- seanhunter 6y ago
  Sometimes you click even when you don't want to. For example on youtube on ipad it's very difficult to click on the vertical three-dot hamburger icon on a video (that you need to use to tell them you're not interested in a video) without clicking on the video by mistake. The hitbox on that icon is all wrong.
seanhunter 6y ago
So true. The thing I find bizarre about youtube is how bad not only their recommendations but their search is. This is a Google company but somehow if I search for a specific episode in a specific series (eg one episode in a game walkthrough or whatever) it can't get the ranking right? I also still don't understand why yt recommendations are as poor as they are. I've tried taking the time to try removing certain things from the "recommendation history" (or whatever they call it), flag recommendations I'm not interested in etc and it does improve things a bit but still it recommends things I would never watch in a million years (eg right now I have 4 Joe Rogan recommendations on my homepage even though I've literally never watched any of his things and have zero interest in ever doing so, and click on every one and say not interested etc, for a while it was obsessed with trying to get me to watch MMA content even though I can't bear watching other people hurt each other). And the whole issue of recommending videos where it knows I've watched the whole thing, I just don't even know where to start.
- SifJar 6y ago
  On search, I wonder if this is deliberate; if they gave you exactly what you want as the top result, you'd click that one and not look any further. But by having to scroll past a few other videos, maybe you'll see another one or two that you also decide to click on, resulting in more overall views. This is a different strategy to Google web search, where the monetisation occurs on the search results page (via ads there) rather than on click-throughs, so there isn't an incentive to try and get you to click several tangentially related links.
deleted 6y ago
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SifJar 6y ago

> random junk I have no interest in watching and always regret clicking on if you regret clicking on it, that means you did click on it and the recommendation did it's job; remember that the job of the recommendation engine is not (directly) to suggest content you'll like, it's to suggest content that will get you to click. Ideally those goals would be aligned, but not necessarily. YouTube is simply incentivised (via ad revenue) to get you to click on as many videos as possible.

csande17 6y ago
At least in my case, it's not that I'm constantly clicking on things that it turns out I dislike. Rather, it's that the few times I have clicked on a recommendation (because hey, maybe they know something I don't, maybe Sonic the Hedgehog actually is a good suggestion for people who liked Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind), I've regretted it.
- SifJar 6y ago
  Right, but my point is that from YouTube's perspective it doesn't "matter" if you like or dislike the video, if they can get you to click. And clearly this strategy works on some people, or they wouldn't be doing it. So while it may not be overly successful on you (i.e. you only click occasionally), if it works on a significant portion of people it could still be a successful strategy overall.
seanhunter 6y ago
Sometimes you click even when you don't want to. For example on youtube on ipad it's very difficult to click on the vertical three-dot hamburger icon on a video (that you need to use to tell them you're not interested in a video) without clicking on the video by mistake. The hitbox on that icon is all wrong.

seanhunter 6y ago

So true. The thing I find bizarre about youtube is how bad not only their recommendations but their search is. This is a Google company but somehow if I search for a specific episode in a specific series (eg one episode in a game walkthrough or whatever) it can't get the ranking right? I also still don't understand why yt recommendations are as poor as they are. I've tried taking the time to try removing certain things from the "recommendation history" (or whatever they call it), flag recommendations I'm not interested in etc and it does improve things a bit but still it recommends things I would never watch in a million years (eg right now I have 4 Joe Rogan recommendations on my homepage even though I've literally never watched any of his things and have zero interest in ever doing so, and click on every one and say not interested etc, for a while it was obsessed with trying to get me to watch MMA content even though I can't bear watching other people hurt each other). And the whole issue of recommending videos where it knows I've watched the whole thing, I just don't even know where to start.

SifJar 6y ago
On search, I wonder if this is deliberate; if they gave you exactly what you want as the top result, you'd click that one and not look any further. But by having to scroll past a few other videos, maybe you'll see another one or two that you also decide to click on, resulting in more overall views. This is a different strategy to Google web search, where the monetisation occurs on the search results page (via ads there) rather than on click-throughs, so there isn't an incentive to try and get you to click several tangentially related links.

deleted 6y ago

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