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Do you believe then that it's impossible to identify a good situation until you take the job? There are no reliable job search tactics to select for better sett

Do you believe then that it's impossible to identify a good situation until you take the job? There are no reliable job search tactics to select for better settings? I would say, for example, that a job interview helps provide a vibe for the current situation at a company. But it's not a perfect signal, and as an individual I can't go on that many interviews. Hence looking for other approaches people have tried. > Companies tend to optimize for profit, not for the comfort of programmers. I believe that's a separate issue from my question. Seeking profit doesn't force a company to hire incompetent or apathetic programmers. If anything it wastes money on salaries that don't deliver as many new product features to sell, or as many improvements that will increase customer retention.

gregjor 6y ago
Great teams should be visible because they produce great products or services, and because they have their pick of top people because word gets around. Big companies will have multiple teams, maybe hundreds at companies like Google and Apple. Some of those may be great to work with, others dysfunctional. Adding more people can push the “greatness” in any direction because interpersonal factors are first-order drivers of team productivity and job satisfaction. So it’s not impossible to identify candidate teams but I think it is impossible to predict how you might fit and what you can get out of it. I think word of mouth through referrals and contacts works best. Some companies have reputations for building good teams, others are known for dysfunction, but those generalization don’t necessarily predict what an individual will experience. Even Google has unhappy employees.
itronitron 6y ago
It's impossible to identify an ideal situation when you take the job because some aspect of the company or team will be 'different' when you start than when you interviewed, either because it was misrepresented, or there is an organizational or staffing change. The best you can do is find a successful team as that will provide more time to improve the team or adapt.

gregjor 6y ago

Great teams should be visible because they produce great products or services, and because they have their pick of top people because word gets around. Big companies will have multiple teams, maybe hundreds at companies like Google and Apple. Some of those may be great to work with, others dysfunctional. Adding more people can push the “greatness” in any direction because interpersonal factors are first-order drivers of team productivity and job satisfaction. So it’s not impossible to identify candidate teams but I think it is impossible to predict how you might fit and what you can get out of it. I think word of mouth through referrals and contacts works best. Some companies have reputations for building good teams, others are known for dysfunction, but those generalization don’t necessarily predict what an individual will experience. Even Google has unhappy employees.

itronitron 6y ago

It's impossible to identify an ideal situation when you take the job because some aspect of the company or team will be 'different' when you start than when you interviewed, either because it was misrepresented, or there is an organizational or staffing change. The best you can do is find a successful team as that will provide more time to improve the team or adapt.