3 ms·

> If I overhear some kids planning to burglarize a house, I have a legal obligation to report that? No, because you did not become aware of the commission of a

by ftf87 6y ago

> If I overhear some kids planning to burglarize a house, I have a legal obligation to report that? No, because you did not become aware of the commission of a felony. If you overheard those same kids discussing a murder they had committed, yes, you are legally liable if you sit on that. Isn’t this common knowledge?

emiliobumachar 6y ago
Excuse me, I did not get it. Is burglary not a felony? Is it about past vs. future?
- meddlepal 6y ago
  Past vs future.
- ftf87 6y ago
  The distinction comes down to whether something rises to the level of conspiracy, if you were hypothetically aware of a crime before it was committed. Beside that, however, burglary in the United States is not a federal felony, which is the specific charge being discussed here. I shared a general legal principle. If you become aware of the commission of a felony and leave a significant amount of evidence showing that you intended to conceal it, it’s absolutely open and shut, and you will be treated as an accomplice. All Americans have a duty, whether they like it or not, to disclose commission of a crime for investigation. Failure to do so can lead to liability down one of several paths. This is one of them. Freedom of speech is completely irrelevant.
pyuser583 6y ago
This is neither common knowledge, nor intuitive. There’s a famous YouTube video of a law professor encouraging people to never talk to the police. Civics classes regularly tell students they have an absolute right to stay silent. The idea that US citizens have an obligation to report crimes is not obvious, and sounds like “compelled speech.“ If this is true, I find it shocking. I thought I had an almost infinite right to keep my mouth shut, and the exceptions involved a judge telling me “you must answer the question” - or at least signing a warrant.
- pyuser583 6y ago
  I’ve looked into this. It’s indeed a crime, but heavily criticized one. Most legal systems have abolished or narrowed it. It’s under (very light) fire from legal scholars. It’s not archaic - US federal prosecutors still use it. But they insist that the accused actively participated in covering up the crime. Or, at least, had a special obligation to report. So this isn’t obvious or well known, and probably is a good candidate for reform.
otterley 6y ago
Attorney here! (Not legal advice; consult licensed counsel in your state if you need legal advice.) You’re missing an element of the crime. Here are the elements according to the Ninth Circuit, which is the jurisdiction in which Sullivan is being charged. Under 18 U.S.C. § 4, “the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt: ‘(1) that the principal . . . committed and completed the felony alleged; (2) that the defendant had full knowledge of that fact; (3) that he failed to notify the authorities; and (4) that he took affirmative steps to conceal the crime of the principal.” So merely failing to report a felony, even one you directly witnessed, does not give rise to a criminal act under the law. Otherwise every witness to a a crime could be considered a criminal if they didn’t report it. You have to engage in some act of concealment as well.

by ftf87 6y ago

emiliobumachar 6y ago

Excuse me, I did not get it. Is burglary not a felony? Is it about past vs. future?

meddlepal 6y ago
Past vs future.
ftf87 6y ago
The distinction comes down to whether something rises to the level of conspiracy, if you were hypothetically aware of a crime before it was committed. Beside that, however, burglary in the United States is not a federal felony, which is the specific charge being discussed here. I shared a general legal principle. If you become aware of the commission of a felony and leave a significant amount of evidence showing that you intended to conceal it, it’s absolutely open and shut, and you will be treated as an accomplice. All Americans have a duty, whether they like it or not, to disclose commission of a crime for investigation. Failure to do so can lead to liability down one of several paths. This is one of them. Freedom of speech is completely irrelevant.

pyuser583 6y ago

This is neither common knowledge, nor intuitive. There’s a famous YouTube video of a law professor encouraging people to never talk to the police. Civics classes regularly tell students they have an absolute right to stay silent. The idea that US citizens have an obligation to report crimes is not obvious, and sounds like “compelled speech.“ If this is true, I find it shocking. I thought I had an almost infinite right to keep my mouth shut, and the exceptions involved a judge telling me “you must answer the question” - or at least signing a warrant.

pyuser583 6y ago
I’ve looked into this. It’s indeed a crime, but heavily criticized one. Most legal systems have abolished or narrowed it. It’s under (very light) fire from legal scholars. It’s not archaic - US federal prosecutors still use it. But they insist that the accused actively participated in covering up the crime. Or, at least, had a special obligation to report. So this isn’t obvious or well known, and probably is a good candidate for reform.

otterley 6y ago

Attorney here! (Not legal advice; consult licensed counsel in your state if you need legal advice.) You’re missing an element of the crime. Here are the elements according to the Ninth Circuit, which is the jurisdiction in which Sullivan is being charged. Under 18 U.S.C. § 4, “the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt: ‘(1) that the principal . . . committed and completed the felony alleged; (2) that the defendant had full knowledge of that fact; (3) that he failed to notify the authorities; and (4) that he took affirmative steps to conceal the crime of the principal.” So merely failing to report a felony, even one you directly witnessed, does not give rise to a criminal act under the law. Otherwise every witness to a a crime could be considered a criminal if they didn’t report it. You have to engage in some act of concealment as well.