4 ms·

Regarding the whole declining rides thing... Wouldn't most companies keep performance stats for their contractors, and if one started refusing lots of jobs, st

Regarding the whole declining rides thing... Wouldn't most companies keep performance stats for their contractors, and if one started refusing lots of jobs, stop giving them work? Seems like Uber is just automating what is a normal part of working with a contractor. With regards to unemployment insurance, this is really a hole in our safety net. Regardless of whether Uber drivers should be considered independent contractors, we should have a solution for independent contractors being put out of work.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
> Wouldn't most companies keep performance stats for their contractors, and if one started refusing lots of jobs, stop giving them work? Seems like Uber is just automating what is a normal part of working with a contractor. The easiest way to allow drivers to set rates, and I'm not sure if there is some reason they haven't already done this, is to just let the driver tell the app their rate, so that they wouldn't even be offered rides below it (which naturally might mean they don't get as many), and the service would just give the ride to the driver in the area with the best rate. Obviously that would mean that if you set a lower rate you'd get more rides. > we should have a solution for independent contractors being put out of work. It's kind of non-applicable to the situation though, because when you have market pricing like this, you never really get put out of work, it's just that the amount you get paid may vary (and fall below the point where you seek other employment). Does Uber even do layoffs of contractors?
- bhupy 6y ago
  Uber now lets drivers set their own rates, with a multiplier: https://therideshareguy.com/set-your-own-rates-uber-feature/ https://therideshareguy.com/set-your-own-rates-uber-feature/
perryizgr8 6y ago
> we should have a solution for independent contractors being put out of work. We have one age old solution for this problem. It's called savings.
- strbean 6y ago
  So people without enough savings to tide them over to the next job (about 70% of the US [0]) should be destitute if they are laid off? And in cases of national disaster, we want vast numbers of destitute people? Preventing people from becoming destitute is a public good. People not having money to provide for their basic needs leads to increases in crime, which is bad for everyone. It leads to increases in disease, which is bad for everyone. It leads to decreases in economic activity, which is bad for everyone. Arguing against the basic social safety net is just plain foolish and short sighted. [0]: https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/12/18/the-percentage-of-americans-with-less-than-1000-in.aspx https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/12/18/the-percentage-of...
- ganafagol 6y ago
  Hard to do for people living paycheck to paycheck. Then they should refuse the job you say? Yeah right then they don't even have that little paycheck anymore. There is a power imbalance here, and that's the root issue. The employee and the employer are not on the same level in terms of negotiating power. Hard for tech people like the HN crowd to realize, but in most areas outside overpaid overdemanded software engineering that's reality. The first industrial revolution showed this pretty dramatically. The solution was workers rights, unions etc. Those things that others here call bureaucrats with a those-people-just-want-to-destroy-the-free-market negative subtone.
  - icebraining 6y ago
    That makes sense when the fat cats are making huge profits and paying a pittance to their workers. But Uber is losing billions every year. Where is the money going to come from?
    - icebraining 6y ago
      Well, I know where it's coming from: a massive number of unemployed drivers, as rates are raised, reducing trips to the few that are profitable enough to pay for that (therefore also excluding lower-income users). Maybe that's an acceptable trade-off, but we should be clear about it, not pretend we can just pump money from an empty well.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

> Wouldn't most companies keep performance stats for their contractors, and if one started refusing lots of jobs, stop giving them work? Seems like Uber is just automating what is a normal part of working with a contractor. The easiest way to allow drivers to set rates, and I'm not sure if there is some reason they haven't already done this, is to just let the driver tell the app their rate, so that they wouldn't even be offered rides below it (which naturally might mean they don't get as many), and the service would just give the ride to the driver in the area with the best rate. Obviously that would mean that if you set a lower rate you'd get more rides. > we should have a solution for independent contractors being put out of work. It's kind of non-applicable to the situation though, because when you have market pricing like this, you never really get put out of work, it's just that the amount you get paid may vary (and fall below the point where you seek other employment). Does Uber even do layoffs of contractors?

bhupy 6y ago
Uber now lets drivers set their own rates, with a multiplier: https://therideshareguy.com/set-your-own-rates-uber-feature/ https://therideshareguy.com/set-your-own-rates-uber-feature/

perryizgr8 6y ago

> we should have a solution for independent contractors being put out of work. We have one age old solution for this problem. It's called savings.

strbean 6y ago
So people without enough savings to tide them over to the next job (about 70% of the US [0]) should be destitute if they are laid off? And in cases of national disaster, we want vast numbers of destitute people? Preventing people from becoming destitute is a public good. People not having money to provide for their basic needs leads to increases in crime, which is bad for everyone. It leads to increases in disease, which is bad for everyone. It leads to decreases in economic activity, which is bad for everyone. Arguing against the basic social safety net is just plain foolish and short sighted. [0]: https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/12/18/the-percentage-of-americans-with-less-than-1000-in.aspx https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/12/18/the-percentage-of...
ganafagol 6y ago
Hard to do for people living paycheck to paycheck. Then they should refuse the job you say? Yeah right then they don't even have that little paycheck anymore. There is a power imbalance here, and that's the root issue. The employee and the employer are not on the same level in terms of negotiating power. Hard for tech people like the HN crowd to realize, but in most areas outside overpaid overdemanded software engineering that's reality. The first industrial revolution showed this pretty dramatically. The solution was workers rights, unions etc. Those things that others here call bureaucrats with a those-people-just-want-to-destroy-the-free-market negative subtone.
- icebraining 6y ago
  That makes sense when the fat cats are making huge profits and paying a pittance to their workers. But Uber is losing billions every year. Where is the money going to come from?
  - icebraining 6y ago
    Well, I know where it's coming from: a massive number of unemployed drivers, as rates are raised, reducing trips to the few that are profitable enough to pay for that (therefore also excluding lower-income users). Maybe that's an acceptable trade-off, but we should be clear about it, not pretend we can just pump money from an empty well.