6 ms·

This is very pessimistic - basically every space-faring nation now has pretty strict licensing requirements for new spacecraft, a portion of which is a plan to

This is very pessimistic - basically every space-faring nation now has pretty strict licensing requirements for new spacecraft, a portion of which is a plan to deorbit / move to a 'junkyard orbit.' In the US, this is actually handled by the FCC, because a satellite you can't talk to might as well be debris. [0] In general, the economics of debris removal are also really unclear, because the actual risk of collisions is still pretty slim and the potential legal risk of touching another nation's spacecraft are high. Many objects are also too small to be tracked. The community is largely shifting towards debris avoidance, rather than mitigation - i.e., tracking and maintaining custody of debris, and maneuvering out of the way when necessary. This is pretty straightforward, since we already do a lot of space object tracking and maneuvering anyways. A variety of commercial companies have already moved into this space, including giants like AGI [1]. [0] https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354773A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-354773A1.pdf [1] https://www.agi.com/missions/space-situational-awareness https://www.agi.com/missions/space-situational-awareness

pyuser583 6y ago
This is how hazardous waste is handled in the US. The producer is ultimate responsible, and accountable, for the waste.
- LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
  Seems like enforcement is lacking, or why else there is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites ?
  - khuey 6y ago
    Most of those sites predate modern environmental law.
  - pyuser583 6y ago
    Most hazardous waste isn’t related to superfund-type sites. Fast food places produce grease. Gas stations have lots of small to medium size spills. Agriculture produces toxic runoff. Etc. Compliance can definitely suck, especially when it comes to small, non-obvious producers - like a mom and pop diner. I don’t know if there are “mom and pop” satellite launchers. I suspect satellite management is an easier industry to regulate.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Look at how many of those sites are formal military bases. If the gov’t won’t hold themselves accountable, why would you expect them to hold a private company responsible?
- robertfw 6y ago
  Considering the number of abandoned tailings ponds etc, this seems pretty laughable in reality
skyfaller 6y ago
And who is going to make the Space Force clean up our orbitals after a battle or war? The idea of combat in orbit is insanity, the Space Force will just ground itself if war ever breaks out in orbit at any scale. It's like building a navy that would be unable to leave port if you were to ever actually use it. It's like... well, nuclear weapons, except perhaps less likely to result in human extinction.
- laksdjfkasljdf 6y ago
  > And who is going to make the Space Force clean up our orbitals after a battle or war? as if the rest of the military think that long for any conflict. From past performance, they will probably install a terrorist organization and/or dictator in orbit.
  - james_s_tayler 6y ago
    The alien warlord Xenu!
- tenpies 6y ago
  The Space Force's first doctrinal cornerstone is literally "Preserve freedom of action" and one of their core competencies is space mobility and logistics. It seems pretty obvious that they've identified the strategic importance of being able to reliably launch and move in space. Now does this mean picking up all the debris after all the Starlink satellites are hacked and turned into missiles by adversaries? Probably not. It's more likely to manifest as either exceptional detection capabilities (and there is an entire section to this in the Space Force), or some sort of shielding technology that brings the risk level to an acceptable tolerance. In its current state it probably means a lot of people thinking about ways of dealing with Kessler syndrome in a variety of ways so that if it ever happens, there is a plan ready to go.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Exceptional detection is not enough against Kessler syndrome. Shielding is a hope, but I wouldn't bank on it.
Rebelgecko 6y ago
We've already had a startup take the Uber/Lyft/Airbnb approach of ignoring regulations and just launching anyways after the FCC denied their application. The punishment a slap on the wrist (6 figure fine, drop in the bucket and probably actually cheaper than doing things the right way)

pyuser583 6y ago

This is how hazardous waste is handled in the US. The producer is ultimate responsible, and accountable, for the waste.

LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
Seems like enforcement is lacking, or why else there is this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites ?
- khuey 6y ago
  Most of those sites predate modern environmental law.
- pyuser583 6y ago
  Most hazardous waste isn’t related to superfund-type sites. Fast food places produce grease. Gas stations have lots of small to medium size spills. Agriculture produces toxic runoff. Etc. Compliance can definitely suck, especially when it comes to small, non-obvious producers - like a mom and pop diner. I don’t know if there are “mom and pop” satellite launchers. I suspect satellite management is an easier industry to regulate.
- refurb 6y ago
  Look at how many of those sites are formal military bases. If the gov’t won’t hold themselves accountable, why would you expect them to hold a private company responsible?
robertfw 6y ago
Considering the number of abandoned tailings ponds etc, this seems pretty laughable in reality

skyfaller 6y ago

And who is going to make the Space Force clean up our orbitals after a battle or war? The idea of combat in orbit is insanity, the Space Force will just ground itself if war ever breaks out in orbit at any scale. It's like building a navy that would be unable to leave port if you were to ever actually use it. It's like... well, nuclear weapons, except perhaps less likely to result in human extinction.

laksdjfkasljdf 6y ago
> And who is going to make the Space Force clean up our orbitals after a battle or war? as if the rest of the military think that long for any conflict. From past performance, they will probably install a terrorist organization and/or dictator in orbit.
- james_s_tayler 6y ago
  The alien warlord Xenu!
tenpies 6y ago
The Space Force's first doctrinal cornerstone is literally "Preserve freedom of action" and one of their core competencies is space mobility and logistics. It seems pretty obvious that they've identified the strategic importance of being able to reliably launch and move in space. Now does this mean picking up all the debris after all the Starlink satellites are hacked and turned into missiles by adversaries? Probably not. It's more likely to manifest as either exceptional detection capabilities (and there is an entire section to this in the Space Force), or some sort of shielding technology that brings the risk level to an acceptable tolerance. In its current state it probably means a lot of people thinking about ways of dealing with Kessler syndrome in a variety of ways so that if it ever happens, there is a plan ready to go.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Exceptional detection is not enough against Kessler syndrome. Shielding is a hope, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Rebelgecko 6y ago

We've already had a startup take the Uber/Lyft/Airbnb approach of ignoring regulations and just launching anyways after the FCC denied their application. The punishment a slap on the wrist (6 figure fine, drop in the bucket and probably actually cheaper than doing things the right way)