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> If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it, it is even worse! I have seen what happens when people try to help. At best they are ig

> If the alternative is not there yet and you are not helping build it, it is even worse! I have seen what happens when people try to help. At best they are ignored. As I've said before, it is my considered opinion that the community is simply not interested in making things better. I would be totally ok with that if they weren't also evengelical. And also, there's only so much time in the day, some of us have higher priorities than building replacement software for stuff that already exists.

adriancr 6y ago
There are projects and projects, some I got ignored as well with patch and bug info provided, others reviewed/integrated in a few days (mozilla/rust) or told I was wrong and bugs I reported were fixed another way
rglullis 6y ago
"interested in making things better" != "interested in making things the way I'd like them to be" > there's only so much time in the day Then contribute some other way instead of just expecting the "community" to accommodate you and your opinions. I'm pretty sure that you won't be ignored if you find the developers responsible for the projects you care about and spare 10-20 bucks their way alongside a list of the issues and proposed improvements.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > "interested in making things better" != "interested in making things the way I'd like them to be" Same difference really if our opinions of what constitutes "better" are so drastically opposed. > Then contribute some other way instead of just expecting the "community" to accommodate you and your opinions. I have contributed both code and money to projects I think are doing good work. Sadly there are very few of them. > I'm pretty sure that you won't be ignored if you find the developers responsible for the projects you care about and spare 10-20 bucks their way alongside a list of the issues and proposed improvements. I can say with confidence that most the projects I've donated to have given me absolutely no special treatment just because I contribute money. I wouldn't have it any other way really, issues are issues regardless and they should be fixed with regard to severity, not who has deep pockets. Hell, that's probably one of the reasons things in Linux land are so ungodly complicated right now: FAANGs are calling the shots because they have the deep pockets.
  - rglullis 6y ago
    > our opinions of what constitutes "better" are so drastically opposed. I am not sure I follow. You mentioned somewhere else that Lubuntu was the one that gave you the least problems and that you are now using windows. Coincidentally, Lubuntu is the flavor that looks like the most with older versions of Windows. To me it looks like your assumption is that anything that does not look like Windows 2000/XP is "worse". If you are starting from this point, don't be surprised if others disagree and ignore you. (Myself, I've been using Xubuntu for the past 8+ years, but I am really not liking the direction Canonical is taking with snap. Perhaps I will switch to Debian + XFCE when I get a slow weekend but this has nothing to do with desktop issues. It's not perfect but the worst problem I can remember was related to get a blank screen after resuming from sleep, which I solved by changing the screen lock program) > FAANGs are calling the shots What the big companies are doing are related to the infrastructure side of things and have nothing to do with the desktop - perhaps except Google and their ChromeOS, but Google's ChromeOS approach is looking each day more and more like turn of the century MS and their "embrace, extend, extinguish". Anyway, perhaps the issue is that you are conflating "Linux" with "Open Source Desktop" and expecting a central place to solve all solutions?
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
      > I am not sure I follow. You mentioned somewhere else that Lubuntu was the one that gave you the least problems and that you are now using windows. Coincidentally, Lubuntu is the flavor that looks like the most with older versions of Windows. > To me it looks like your assumption is that anything that does not look like Windows 2000/XP is "worse" That's a very condescending conclusion to draw. I found LXDE less complicated and significantly snappier than alternatives that had their own Ubuntu derivative. I chose an Ubuntu derivative because Ubuntu has the widest range of supported software. But hey, it all has to do with how it looks right? Thinking like that by the Linux Desktop community is why you guys still aren't taken seriously. > What the big companies are doing are related to the infrastructure side of things and have nothing to do with the desktop The desktop experience is not wholly separated from the infrastructure beneath it. The init system, the event subsystem, hardware management, network management, sound system, display server etc. are only abstracted in the leakiest of ways. > Anyway, perhaps the issue is that you are conflating "Linux" with "Open Source Desktop" and expecting a central place to solve all solutions? Unfortunately it pretty much is the only option that is even remotely viable. But mostly I focus on problems with Linux because it has by far the most evangelical community.

adriancr 6y ago

There are projects and projects, some I got ignored as well with patch and bug info provided, others reviewed/integrated in a few days (mozilla/rust) or told I was wrong and bugs I reported were fixed another way

rglullis 6y ago

"interested in making things better" != "interested in making things the way I'd like them to be" > there's only so much time in the day Then contribute some other way instead of just expecting the "community" to accommodate you and your opinions. I'm pretty sure that you won't be ignored if you find the developers responsible for the projects you care about and spare 10-20 bucks their way alongside a list of the issues and proposed improvements.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> "interested in making things better" != "interested in making things the way I'd like them to be" Same difference really if our opinions of what constitutes "better" are so drastically opposed. > Then contribute some other way instead of just expecting the "community" to accommodate you and your opinions. I have contributed both code and money to projects I think are doing good work. Sadly there are very few of them. > I'm pretty sure that you won't be ignored if you find the developers responsible for the projects you care about and spare 10-20 bucks their way alongside a list of the issues and proposed improvements. I can say with confidence that most the projects I've donated to have given me absolutely no special treatment just because I contribute money. I wouldn't have it any other way really, issues are issues regardless and they should be fixed with regard to severity, not who has deep pockets. Hell, that's probably one of the reasons things in Linux land are so ungodly complicated right now: FAANGs are calling the shots because they have the deep pockets.
- rglullis 6y ago
  > our opinions of what constitutes "better" are so drastically opposed. I am not sure I follow. You mentioned somewhere else that Lubuntu was the one that gave you the least problems and that you are now using windows. Coincidentally, Lubuntu is the flavor that looks like the most with older versions of Windows. To me it looks like your assumption is that anything that does not look like Windows 2000/XP is "worse". If you are starting from this point, don't be surprised if others disagree and ignore you. (Myself, I've been using Xubuntu for the past 8+ years, but I am really not liking the direction Canonical is taking with snap. Perhaps I will switch to Debian + XFCE when I get a slow weekend but this has nothing to do with desktop issues. It's not perfect but the worst problem I can remember was related to get a blank screen after resuming from sleep, which I solved by changing the screen lock program) > FAANGs are calling the shots What the big companies are doing are related to the infrastructure side of things and have nothing to do with the desktop - perhaps except Google and their ChromeOS, but Google's ChromeOS approach is looking each day more and more like turn of the century MS and their "embrace, extend, extinguish". Anyway, perhaps the issue is that you are conflating "Linux" with "Open Source Desktop" and expecting a central place to solve all solutions?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
    > I am not sure I follow. You mentioned somewhere else that Lubuntu was the one that gave you the least problems and that you are now using windows. Coincidentally, Lubuntu is the flavor that looks like the most with older versions of Windows. > To me it looks like your assumption is that anything that does not look like Windows 2000/XP is "worse" That's a very condescending conclusion to draw. I found LXDE less complicated and significantly snappier than alternatives that had their own Ubuntu derivative. I chose an Ubuntu derivative because Ubuntu has the widest range of supported software. But hey, it all has to do with how it looks right? Thinking like that by the Linux Desktop community is why you guys still aren't taken seriously. > What the big companies are doing are related to the infrastructure side of things and have nothing to do with the desktop The desktop experience is not wholly separated from the infrastructure beneath it. The init system, the event subsystem, hardware management, network management, sound system, display server etc. are only abstracted in the leakiest of ways. > Anyway, perhaps the issue is that you are conflating "Linux" with "Open Source Desktop" and expecting a central place to solve all solutions? Unfortunately it pretty much is the only option that is even remotely viable. But mostly I focus on problems with Linux because it has by far the most evangelical community.