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I think it's fair to say that Kush has never been 'forgotten'--in fact, it's been heavily researched, documented, debated. This article title is a bit clickbait

I think it's fair to say that Kush has never been 'forgotten'--in fact, it's been heavily researched, documented, debated. This article title is a bit clickbait-y, and hinges on the current fad of 'Europeans are all racists and didn't acknowledge/appreciate a Black civilization', which is of course wrong.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
airstrike 6y ago
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Nubian_(Civ6) https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Nubian_(Civ6) Yeah, doesn't look forgotten to me https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Amanitore_(Civ6) https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Amanitore_(Civ6) > Kandake Amanitore ruled Nubia at the turning of an era. A powerful queen, feared by her enemies and beloved by her people, she was one of the last great builders of the Kingdom of Kush. Amanitore restored the Land of the Bow to its greatness following a period of turmoil. Her rule was long and her works lasting. > At least, that is what historians have pieced together. Two millennia and one dead language later, there is little surviving written record of Amanitore in the form of scrolls or other documents. What remains is carved into the very stone of the buildings she left behind. > The most nebulous aspect of Amanitore's life is who she was before she became queen. Indeed, her personality is a cypher. We can only interpret. One abstract depiction of the kandake shows her mercilessly slaying enemies she has already subjugated. Was it from an actual incident where she ordered the execution of rebels, or propaganda proclaiming her righteous vengeance against those who would be enemies of the state? > Even then, her actual role as queen is difficult to pin down. Conflicting accounts of her co-ruler Natakamani depict him as either her husband or her son, though thankfully never both. Furthermore, Amanitore succeeded Kandake Amanishakheto, who was either her mother-in-law (if Natakamani was Amanitore's husband), her actual mother (if Natakamani was Amanitore's son), or some other form of relation lost to time. > The fuzzy details of Amanitore's lineage are less important than the role she held. The title of kandake—or “candace,” as the Romans called it—roughly translates to “queen-mother,” but it did not equate to a regent ruling on behalf of an heir too young to hold power. Instead, the kandakes were independent queens who ruled alone with husband consorts or with kings in a form of co-rulership. > Amanitore's reign took the latter form, with Natakamani as her equal. There is scant information on any aspect of her life before she became queen (around 1 BCE). Still, monuments always depict both co-rulers as adults, so she was likely in her prime when her rule began. In fact, the depictions of Amanitore and Natakamani deliberately present the two as equivalent, particularly in religious buildings, which was uncommon for the time. > With Egypt a Roman vassal and Rome on amicable terms with Nubia, no regional conflicts threatened Amanitore's reign. The relatively peaceful time and the collaborative autonomy of co-rulership let Amanitore pursue what would become her legacy—an extended period of building that brought great prosperity to the Meroitic kingdom. Among her works were the construction of Nubian pyramids and tombs, restoration of Amun's temple in Meroe, and infrastructure projects, such as the reservoirs built near the capital. > Amanitore also rebuilt the temple of Amun at Napata—the same temple that Roman invaders had destroyed just two decades prior. As Amanitore’s name incorporated the name of the god Amun, it is reasonable to assume its restoration was a point of pride for the busy queen. Indeed, her efforts helped revive Jebel Barkal to at least a fraction of its former glory. > Although the queen enjoyed cordial relations with Rome, the decades-earlier reprisal raids into Egyptian (which is to say, "Roman") territory had recovered bronze statues of Augustus Caesar as spoils of war. An apocryphal tale describes Amanitore burying the decapitated head of one such statue beneath temple stairs in Meroe so Nubians would always walk over the Roman emperor responsible for razing Napata. (It was most likely Kandake Amanirenas, her predecessor, who actually did this.) Whether or not she was actually responsible for its burial, the "Meroe head" of Augustus Caesar was recovered in the early 20th Century—found beneath a flight of temple steps. > As with the confusion surrounding Amanitore's ascension, we know very little about the end of her reign. Some estimates put the date of her death at roughly 20 CE. Treasure hunters have long since plundered her tomb in Meroe. > Despite the many unknown aspects of Amanitore, the extensive building program she left behind inspired later kandakes to expand upon her work, which in turn led to a flourishing of Meroitic culture and fortunes through the Second Century. Archaeologists continue to uncover examples of her influence, including a set of recently unearthed Nubian pyramids built during her reign.
- cool_dude85 6y ago
  Loading up gamefaqs.com Age Of Empires II Walkthrough to prove my point about human civilizations.
  - airstrike 6y ago
    Age of Empires II didn't have a "Civilopedia". I didn't grab this off gamefaqs.com. The site I linked is literally sharing content from the game. So not exactly a fair analogy, and I don't see how your snarky low-effort comment moves the conversation forward in any way.
AlotOfReading 6y ago
Yes, Sudan hasn't been totally ignored, but the 3 classical areas of Rome, Greece, and Egypt have gotten a very disproportionate share of work, with France and the Levant/near east as second fiddles. On that scale, I think it's fair to describe Sudan and other outlying areas (like the Caucasus) as effectively ignored. The article also isn't talking about "Europeans are racist and didn't appreciate black people". It's referencing about how Sudanese archaeology has been plagued by Diffusionism, a formerly dominant school of thought that's come under heavy criticism in the past 40ish years. Some people, myself included, will argue that diffusionism is a product of prejudiced ideologies and worldviews, but that's at least one step removed from what you're suggesting.
- hogFeast 6y ago
  The work is in proportion to the amount of documents that are retained today. The reason why Rome and Greece are "popular" is they determined intellectual thought from the fall of the Western Rome until, probably, humanism (some one millennia later) so much of what they wrote down has been retained (or, more accurately, wasn't destroyed). As an example: we know Carthage was a huge civilisation...until Rome razed it so we have no real idea today what ancient Carthage actually was like apart from that it was significant enough for Rome to burn to the ground. Also, talking about "Europeans" is indicative of a total misconception of history in the period. Rome was a Mediterranean as much as a European one (north of Rome wasn't Europe as today, it was just a bunch of tribes). Many important figures that, ironically, people today say are examples of an over-emphasis on "Europeans" were Africans. Augustine being the best example, basically founded the theology of the early Church, he was a Roman but he was (in today's terms) also African. In short, trying to read the present back into the future is not smart.
  - AlotOfReading 6y ago
    The work of archaeologists is absolutely not in proportion to the amount of surviving documents. Most of my digs have been in places and periods with few to no written records, for example. As for the comment about Europeans, I was talking about modern academics (particularly of the early through late 20th century). The leading archaeologists of that period primarily came from European and American traditions. I have no idea what Augustine has to do with 20th century academia. Please feel free to enlighten me if there's a connection though.
rsynnott 6y ago
Well, it's probably fair to say that it's been ignored by the general public, but then so have most really old civilisations; in the popular imagination, there was nothing except Greece, Rome and Egypt until this side of 1 AD. > hinges on the current fad of 'Europeans are all racists and didn't appreciate a Black civilization', which is of course wrong. ... eh, until last century it was fashionable to attribute it to "just an Egypt copy, basically". EDIT: On the latter topic, RE the guy who looted the Sudanese pyramids: > He tried to sell the treasure, but at this time nobody believed that such high quality jewellery could be made in Sub-Saharan Africa. The stuff he stole ultimately ended up in two German museums for _Egyptian_ artifacts.
- CBLT 6y ago
  > in the popular imagination, there was nothing except Greece, Rome and Egypt until this side of 1 AD. Doesn't seem true to me; people seem aware of the Mayans and some of the stuff going on in Asia at the time (though generally not all).
  - kaitai 6y ago
    In school, we (I'm in the US) spent a whole high school semester on Greece and Rome. In elementary school we had a unit on Mayans/Aztecs/the Inca, and we had a unit on ancient India, but not in high school. For some reason Chinese history was really ignored so I didn't get that until I chose to take a class in college. Since we don't have a national curriculum in the US, I'm sure it's different in different places. I think we know about the Mayans because Americans like to fly to Cancun.
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      This is a continuation of the 19th century American bias towards Greek classicism as the hallmark of democracy. Conflict with the Ottomans generated a lot of sympathy toward Greece and that was reflected in fads of fashion, architecture, place names, and education.
      - 6y ago
throwaway590007 6y ago
Looking at a strain of thought that seeks to attribute the current differences in outcomes and 'accomplishments' between Africans and Europeans to the inherent qualities of their populations, thereby discarding the possibility that such outcomes could have been different not so long ago, and seeing this strain of thought dominate HN and HN-adjacent communities (in the form of "we should dig into at'uncomfortable questions' and so forth"), I'd say that yes, Kush has largely been forgotten by the general population, even that part of which who likes to call itself 'educated'.
- fortran77 6y ago
  > I'd say that yes, Kush has largely been forgotten by the general population, even that part of which who likes to call itself 'educated'. The Kingdom of Kush, and the people who came from there are well known to Jews. Moses wife Tziporah was a Midianite (as was Jethro) and he had a second wife from Kush.
  - legerdemain 6y ago
    Tangentially, it's funny how some brands name themselves after historical or semi-mythological figures. Tziporah sells makeup (as Sephora). Lady Godiva sells expensive chocolates.
IllogicalLogic 6y ago
"the current fad of 'Europeans are all racists and didn't appreciate a Black civilization', which is of course wrong." The leaders of European nations fed and feed their populations large amount of misinformation about who they are and who people outside their borders were. If a monarch was chosen by god, how could the greatest structures in human history not be in Europe? The answer was to whitewash as much as possible. You see this in the restoration of art for the last few centuries, many brown/black pieces turned white all of sudden. Some claim this was unintentional, but if we look at how Africans have been treated for the past 500± years, that claim seems suspicious and sounds more like ass-covering when the fraud was revealed. I expect this exposing of fraud to ramp up as automated translation allows us to compare notes between the great civilizations of human history.
kilgorewest 6y ago
>”the current fad of 'Europeans are all racists and didn't appreciate a Black civilization', which is of course wrong." The leaders of European nations fed and feed their populations large amount of misinformation about who they are and who people outside their borders were. If a monarch was made in the image of and chosen by god, how could the greatest structures in human history not be in Europe? The solution was to whitewash as much as possible. You see this in the restoration of art for the last few centuries, many brown/black pieces turned white all of sudden. Some claim this was unintentional, but if we look at how Africans have been treated for the past 500± years, that claim seems suspicious and sounds more like ass-covering when the fraud was revealed. I expect this exposing of fraud to ramp up as automated translation allows us to compare notes between the great civilizations of human history in the near future.
monadic2 6y ago
I mean they literally invented race to enslave entire groups of people. And it's hardly like Europe stopped interfering or exploiting even with the 21st century.
- elefanten 6y ago
  This is such an intellectually impoverished notion of racism. It's mired in 20th-century theory goo. You can rest assured that racist reasoning ran rampant throughout world history long before someone coined the word "race" or before 18th/19th century political narratives used it in whatever particular ways.
  - cmrdporcupine 6y ago
    I challenge you to go find a description of race based on skin colour in old Roman texts. The colour of someone's skin is barely commented on in them, more of a novelty about the person, and is not described as being related to "race." And yet they had an empire which spanned from North Africa to Northern Europe. Race as a category was an invention to justify the form of slave trade during the settling of the Americas.
    - torstenvl 6y ago
      Herodotus narrates the Athenians promising that they would never betray the Spartans because they are the same race ("homaimos" → "same blood"). I don't know off the top of my head whether the Romans widely knew of the Histories, but it certainly undercuts your claim that these broader categorizations are a recent invention. The Athenians and Spartans clearly recognized a racial idea broader than the cultures of their individual polities.
      - monadic2 6y ago
        That is not race. Ethnicity and race are distinct concepts.
        6y ago
renewiltord 6y ago
This comment undersells the article, imho, which is quite cool. I would have thought it’s some culture war overcorrection but it actually only has one reference to prejudice (about an Egyptologist from the early 1900s) and is mostly about how the Kush kingdoms were actually more than just some Egyptian colony. Title is clickbaity though of you interpret it literally. Article does not answer “why” it was forgotten.
eagsalazar2 6y ago
Your "see it has been researched" rebuttal is dodging the actual point which is that it has been systematically under-researched and under-appreciated, not that it hasn't been researched at all. Similarly no one is saying all Europeans are racists and you trotting that out is just a straw man. Your proposal that European/American civilization having a major problem now and historically of exploiting and marginalizing the brown world in every single way is "of course wrong" is completely insane and, honestly, an example of exactly the systematic racism you are denying.
TheTruth321 6y ago
"all" ... Is that your fad? You sound entirely stupid for this type of a subject. Edit: unsuitable might be the better word for stupid in this case, but I'll let both stand.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

airstrike 6y ago

https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Nubian_(Civ6) https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Nubian_(Civ6) Yeah, doesn't look forgotten to me https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Amanitore_(Civ6) https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Amanitore_(Civ6) > Kandake Amanitore ruled Nubia at the turning of an era. A powerful queen, feared by her enemies and beloved by her people, she was one of the last great builders of the Kingdom of Kush. Amanitore restored the Land of the Bow to its greatness following a period of turmoil. Her rule was long and her works lasting. > At least, that is what historians have pieced together. Two millennia and one dead language later, there is little surviving written record of Amanitore in the form of scrolls or other documents. What remains is carved into the very stone of the buildings she left behind. > The most nebulous aspect of Amanitore's life is who she was before she became queen. Indeed, her personality is a cypher. We can only interpret. One abstract depiction of the kandake shows her mercilessly slaying enemies she has already subjugated. Was it from an actual incident where she ordered the execution of rebels, or propaganda proclaiming her righteous vengeance against those who would be enemies of the state? > Even then, her actual role as queen is difficult to pin down. Conflicting accounts of her co-ruler Natakamani depict him as either her husband or her son, though thankfully never both. Furthermore, Amanitore succeeded Kandake Amanishakheto, who was either her mother-in-law (if Natakamani was Amanitore's husband), her actual mother (if Natakamani was Amanitore's son), or some other form of relation lost to time. > The fuzzy details of Amanitore's lineage are less important than the role she held. The title of kandake—or “candace,” as the Romans called it—roughly translates to “queen-mother,” but it did not equate to a regent ruling on behalf of an heir too young to hold power. Instead, the kandakes were independent queens who ruled alone with husband consorts or with kings in a form of co-rulership. > Amanitore's reign took the latter form, with Natakamani as her equal. There is scant information on any aspect of her life before she became queen (around 1 BCE). Still, monuments always depict both co-rulers as adults, so she was likely in her prime when her rule began. In fact, the depictions of Amanitore and Natakamani deliberately present the two as equivalent, particularly in religious buildings, which was uncommon for the time. > With Egypt a Roman vassal and Rome on amicable terms with Nubia, no regional conflicts threatened Amanitore's reign. The relatively peaceful time and the collaborative autonomy of co-rulership let Amanitore pursue what would become her legacy—an extended period of building that brought great prosperity to the Meroitic kingdom. Among her works were the construction of Nubian pyramids and tombs, restoration of Amun's temple in Meroe, and infrastructure projects, such as the reservoirs built near the capital. > Amanitore also rebuilt the temple of Amun at Napata—the same temple that Roman invaders had destroyed just two decades prior. As Amanitore’s name incorporated the name of the god Amun, it is reasonable to assume its restoration was a point of pride for the busy queen. Indeed, her efforts helped revive Jebel Barkal to at least a fraction of its former glory. > Although the queen enjoyed cordial relations with Rome, the decades-earlier reprisal raids into Egyptian (which is to say, "Roman") territory had recovered bronze statues of Augustus Caesar as spoils of war. An apocryphal tale describes Amanitore burying the decapitated head of one such statue beneath temple stairs in Meroe so Nubians would always walk over the Roman emperor responsible for razing Napata. (It was most likely Kandake Amanirenas, her predecessor, who actually did this.) Whether or not she was actually responsible for its burial, the "Meroe head" of Augustus Caesar was recovered in the early 20th Century—found beneath a flight of temple steps. > As with the confusion surrounding Amanitore's ascension, we know very little about the end of her reign. Some estimates put the date of her death at roughly 20 CE. Treasure hunters have long since plundered her tomb in Meroe. > Despite the many unknown aspects of Amanitore, the extensive building program she left behind inspired later kandakes to expand upon her work, which in turn led to a flourishing of Meroitic culture and fortunes through the Second Century. Archaeologists continue to uncover examples of her influence, including a set of recently unearthed Nubian pyramids built during her reign.

cool_dude85 6y ago
Loading up gamefaqs.com Age Of Empires II Walkthrough to prove my point about human civilizations.
- airstrike 6y ago
  Age of Empires II didn't have a "Civilopedia". I didn't grab this off gamefaqs.com. The site I linked is literally sharing content from the game. So not exactly a fair analogy, and I don't see how your snarky low-effort comment moves the conversation forward in any way.

AlotOfReading 6y ago

Yes, Sudan hasn't been totally ignored, but the 3 classical areas of Rome, Greece, and Egypt have gotten a very disproportionate share of work, with France and the Levant/near east as second fiddles. On that scale, I think it's fair to describe Sudan and other outlying areas (like the Caucasus) as effectively ignored. The article also isn't talking about "Europeans are racist and didn't appreciate black people". It's referencing about how Sudanese archaeology has been plagued by Diffusionism, a formerly dominant school of thought that's come under heavy criticism in the past 40ish years. Some people, myself included, will argue that diffusionism is a product of prejudiced ideologies and worldviews, but that's at least one step removed from what you're suggesting.

hogFeast 6y ago
The work is in proportion to the amount of documents that are retained today. The reason why Rome and Greece are "popular" is they determined intellectual thought from the fall of the Western Rome until, probably, humanism (some one millennia later) so much of what they wrote down has been retained (or, more accurately, wasn't destroyed). As an example: we know Carthage was a huge civilisation...until Rome razed it so we have no real idea today what ancient Carthage actually was like apart from that it was significant enough for Rome to burn to the ground. Also, talking about "Europeans" is indicative of a total misconception of history in the period. Rome was a Mediterranean as much as a European one (north of Rome wasn't Europe as today, it was just a bunch of tribes). Many important figures that, ironically, people today say are examples of an over-emphasis on "Europeans" were Africans. Augustine being the best example, basically founded the theology of the early Church, he was a Roman but he was (in today's terms) also African. In short, trying to read the present back into the future is not smart.
- AlotOfReading 6y ago
  The work of archaeologists is absolutely not in proportion to the amount of surviving documents. Most of my digs have been in places and periods with few to no written records, for example. As for the comment about Europeans, I was talking about modern academics (particularly of the early through late 20th century). The leading archaeologists of that period primarily came from European and American traditions. I have no idea what Augustine has to do with 20th century academia. Please feel free to enlighten me if there's a connection though.

rsynnott 6y ago

Well, it's probably fair to say that it's been ignored by the general public, but then so have most really old civilisations; in the popular imagination, there was nothing except Greece, Rome and Egypt until this side of 1 AD. > hinges on the current fad of 'Europeans are all racists and didn't appreciate a Black civilization', which is of course wrong. ... eh, until last century it was fashionable to attribute it to "just an Egypt copy, basically". EDIT: On the latter topic, RE the guy who looted the Sudanese pyramids: > He tried to sell the treasure, but at this time nobody believed that such high quality jewellery could be made in Sub-Saharan Africa. The stuff he stole ultimately ended up in two German museums for _Egyptian_ artifacts.

CBLT 6y ago
> in the popular imagination, there was nothing except Greece, Rome and Egypt until this side of 1 AD. Doesn't seem true to me; people seem aware of the Mayans and some of the stuff going on in Asia at the time (though generally not all).
- kaitai 6y ago
  In school, we (I'm in the US) spent a whole high school semester on Greece and Rome. In elementary school we had a unit on Mayans/Aztecs/the Inca, and we had a unit on ancient India, but not in high school. For some reason Chinese history was really ignored so I didn't get that until I chose to take a class in college. Since we don't have a national curriculum in the US, I'm sure it's different in different places. I think we know about the Mayans because Americans like to fly to Cancun.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    This is a continuation of the 19th century American bias towards Greek classicism as the hallmark of democracy. Conflict with the Ottomans generated a lot of sympathy toward Greece and that was reflected in fads of fashion, architecture, place names, and education.
    - 6y ago

throwaway590007 6y ago

Looking at a strain of thought that seeks to attribute the current differences in outcomes and 'accomplishments' between Africans and Europeans to the inherent qualities of their populations, thereby discarding the possibility that such outcomes could have been different not so long ago, and seeing this strain of thought dominate HN and HN-adjacent communities (in the form of "we should dig into at'uncomfortable questions' and so forth"), I'd say that yes, Kush has largely been forgotten by the general population, even that part of which who likes to call itself 'educated'.

fortran77 6y ago
> I'd say that yes, Kush has largely been forgotten by the general population, even that part of which who likes to call itself 'educated'. The Kingdom of Kush, and the people who came from there are well known to Jews. Moses wife Tziporah was a Midianite (as was Jethro) and he had a second wife from Kush.
- legerdemain 6y ago
  Tangentially, it's funny how some brands name themselves after historical or semi-mythological figures. Tziporah sells makeup (as Sephora). Lady Godiva sells expensive chocolates.

IllogicalLogic 6y ago

"the current fad of 'Europeans are all racists and didn't appreciate a Black civilization', which is of course wrong." The leaders of European nations fed and feed their populations large amount of misinformation about who they are and who people outside their borders were. If a monarch was chosen by god, how could the greatest structures in human history not be in Europe? The answer was to whitewash as much as possible. You see this in the restoration of art for the last few centuries, many brown/black pieces turned white all of sudden. Some claim this was unintentional, but if we look at how Africans have been treated for the past 500± years, that claim seems suspicious and sounds more like ass-covering when the fraud was revealed. I expect this exposing of fraud to ramp up as automated translation allows us to compare notes between the great civilizations of human history.

kilgorewest 6y ago

>”the current fad of 'Europeans are all racists and didn't appreciate a Black civilization', which is of course wrong." The leaders of European nations fed and feed their populations large amount of misinformation about who they are and who people outside their borders were. If a monarch was made in the image of and chosen by god, how could the greatest structures in human history not be in Europe? The solution was to whitewash as much as possible. You see this in the restoration of art for the last few centuries, many brown/black pieces turned white all of sudden. Some claim this was unintentional, but if we look at how Africans have been treated for the past 500± years, that claim seems suspicious and sounds more like ass-covering when the fraud was revealed. I expect this exposing of fraud to ramp up as automated translation allows us to compare notes between the great civilizations of human history in the near future.

monadic2 6y ago

I mean they literally invented race to enslave entire groups of people. And it's hardly like Europe stopped interfering or exploiting even with the 21st century.

elefanten 6y ago
This is such an intellectually impoverished notion of racism. It's mired in 20th-century theory goo. You can rest assured that racist reasoning ran rampant throughout world history long before someone coined the word "race" or before 18th/19th century political narratives used it in whatever particular ways.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  I challenge you to go find a description of race based on skin colour in old Roman texts. The colour of someone's skin is barely commented on in them, more of a novelty about the person, and is not described as being related to "race." And yet they had an empire which spanned from North Africa to Northern Europe. Race as a category was an invention to justify the form of slave trade during the settling of the Americas.
  - torstenvl 6y ago
    Herodotus narrates the Athenians promising that they would never betray the Spartans because they are the same race ("homaimos" → "same blood"). I don't know off the top of my head whether the Romans widely knew of the Histories, but it certainly undercuts your claim that these broader categorizations are a recent invention. The Athenians and Spartans clearly recognized a racial idea broader than the cultures of their individual polities.
    - monadic2 6y ago
      That is not race. Ethnicity and race are distinct concepts.
      - 6y ago

renewiltord 6y ago

This comment undersells the article, imho, which is quite cool. I would have thought it’s some culture war overcorrection but it actually only has one reference to prejudice (about an Egyptologist from the early 1900s) and is mostly about how the Kush kingdoms were actually more than just some Egyptian colony. Title is clickbaity though of you interpret it literally. Article does not answer “why” it was forgotten.

eagsalazar2 6y ago

Your "see it has been researched" rebuttal is dodging the actual point which is that it has been systematically under-researched and under-appreciated, not that it hasn't been researched at all. Similarly no one is saying all Europeans are racists and you trotting that out is just a straw man. Your proposal that European/American civilization having a major problem now and historically of exploiting and marginalizing the brown world in every single way is "of course wrong" is completely insane and, honestly, an example of exactly the systematic racism you are denying.

TheTruth321 6y ago

"all" ... Is that your fad? You sound entirely stupid for this type of a subject. Edit: unsuitable might be the better word for stupid in this case, but I'll let both stand.