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What evidence do you have that "the traditional checks and balances of a healthy civil society" aren't working? Just because you aren't getting your way doesn'

What evidence do you have that "the traditional checks and balances of a healthy civil society" aren't working? Just because you aren't getting your way doesn't mean society isn't working. You have a viewpoint, but plenty of other people have a very different viewpoint on where things should stand. That we manage to arrive at a reasonable middle ground between all of these dissenting opinions seems to indicate that the system is working. I'm tired of hearing all of this posturing and justification for Anon just because you support what they support. If it was the Montana Tea Party employing tactics like this, they would be called domestic terrorists. So, sorry: DDoSes, stalking, harassment and vandalism are not "civil disobedience", they're just plain old despicable behavior.

mcantelon 16y ago
>What evidence do you have that "the traditional checks and balances of a healthy civil society" aren't working? Representative democracy now represents lobbyists rather than voters. Media now represents corporate interests rather than the public interest. This manifests in a new economic/political order: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/barrie-mckenna/gap-between-rich-and-poor-wont-be-closing-any-time-soon/article1740237/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary... >That we manage to arrive at a reasonable middle ground between all of these dissenting opinions seems to indicate that the system is working. Pretty much anyone I talk to, regardless of their political persuasion, doesn't feel the system is working. >I'm tired of hearing all of this posturing and justification for Anon just because you support what they support. That's unfortunate. Laws, the economy, culture, and politics have changed since the days of a functional civil society. It's unlikely that people in present circumstances will abide by standards of behavior that don't advance their interests. >So, sorry: DDoSes, stalking, harassment and vandalism are not "civil disobedience", they're just plain old despicable behavior. The tactics of the American and French revolutions were likely classifed as "despicable" as well by the out of touch and complacent, but history would be much different without these tactics. Many see Sony's abuse of power as "despicable". Sony is free to withdraw their aggression at any time.
- drusenko 16y ago
  > The tactics of the American and French revolutions were likely classifed as "despicable" as well by the out of touch and complacent, but history would be much different without these tactics. Many see Sony's abuse of power as "despicable". Sony is free to withdraw their aggression at any time. To compare the state we're in to those periods in time is very misleading. We have one of the highest qualities of life and some of the strongest freedoms than at any other point in time. Let's not lose perspective. We should "fight" for what we believe in and try to effect positive change, but we are extremely far away from the extreme times that warranted extreme revolutionary measures. > Pretty much anyone I talk to, regardless of their political persuasion, doesn't feel the system is working. That's a great sign that it is. Reminds me of the quote: "You know it's a great deal when both sides feel screwed."
  - chopsueyar 16y ago
    That's a great sign that it is. So what, the system only started working very recently?
  - mcantelon 16y ago
    >To compare the state we're in to those periods in time is very misleading. We have one of the highest qualities of life and some of the strongest freedoms than at any other point in time. Let's not lose perspective. A time like ours, in which there's a massive societal shift (the rapid shrinking of the middle class as a result of globalization) accompanied by a financial crisis, is actually quite comparable to the environments that fostered the American and French revolutions. The French revolution was preceded by a financial crisis and enlarged public debt due to foreign wars. Back then it was nobility and the clergy that managed to avoid taxation and whose interests were overrepresented by the state. In our times the wealthy and corporations have gained this favor. >That's a great sign that it is. Reminds me of the quote: "You know it's a great deal when both sides feel screwed." Ah. So by this logic revolutionary America and France also had "working" systems.
- btilly 16y ago
  Representative democracy now represents lobbyists rather than voters. Media now represents corporate interests rather than the public interest. NOW represents? That suggests that it has changed sometime in the last century. But from everything that I have read, the corruption is actually less today than it was a hundred years ago. Pretty much anyone I talk to, regardless of their political persuasion, doesn't feel the system is working. Oh the system is working, alright. It just isn't working for _you_. :-P

mcantelon 16y ago

>What evidence do you have that "the traditional checks and balances of a healthy civil society" aren't working? Representative democracy now represents lobbyists rather than voters. Media now represents corporate interests rather than the public interest. This manifests in a new economic/political order: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/barrie-mckenna/gap-between-rich-and-poor-wont-be-closing-any-time-soon/article1740237/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary... >That we manage to arrive at a reasonable middle ground between all of these dissenting opinions seems to indicate that the system is working. Pretty much anyone I talk to, regardless of their political persuasion, doesn't feel the system is working. >I'm tired of hearing all of this posturing and justification for Anon just because you support what they support. That's unfortunate. Laws, the economy, culture, and politics have changed since the days of a functional civil society. It's unlikely that people in present circumstances will abide by standards of behavior that don't advance their interests. >So, sorry: DDoSes, stalking, harassment and vandalism are not "civil disobedience", they're just plain old despicable behavior. The tactics of the American and French revolutions were likely classifed as "despicable" as well by the out of touch and complacent, but history would be much different without these tactics. Many see Sony's abuse of power as "despicable". Sony is free to withdraw their aggression at any time.

drusenko 16y ago
> The tactics of the American and French revolutions were likely classifed as "despicable" as well by the out of touch and complacent, but history would be much different without these tactics. Many see Sony's abuse of power as "despicable". Sony is free to withdraw their aggression at any time. To compare the state we're in to those periods in time is very misleading. We have one of the highest qualities of life and some of the strongest freedoms than at any other point in time. Let's not lose perspective. We should "fight" for what we believe in and try to effect positive change, but we are extremely far away from the extreme times that warranted extreme revolutionary measures. > Pretty much anyone I talk to, regardless of their political persuasion, doesn't feel the system is working. That's a great sign that it is. Reminds me of the quote: "You know it's a great deal when both sides feel screwed."
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  That's a great sign that it is. So what, the system only started working very recently?
- mcantelon 16y ago
  >To compare the state we're in to those periods in time is very misleading. We have one of the highest qualities of life and some of the strongest freedoms than at any other point in time. Let's not lose perspective. A time like ours, in which there's a massive societal shift (the rapid shrinking of the middle class as a result of globalization) accompanied by a financial crisis, is actually quite comparable to the environments that fostered the American and French revolutions. The French revolution was preceded by a financial crisis and enlarged public debt due to foreign wars. Back then it was nobility and the clergy that managed to avoid taxation and whose interests were overrepresented by the state. In our times the wealthy and corporations have gained this favor. >That's a great sign that it is. Reminds me of the quote: "You know it's a great deal when both sides feel screwed." Ah. So by this logic revolutionary America and France also had "working" systems.
btilly 16y ago
Representative democracy now represents lobbyists rather than voters. Media now represents corporate interests rather than the public interest. NOW represents? That suggests that it has changed sometime in the last century. But from everything that I have read, the corruption is actually less today than it was a hundred years ago. Pretty much anyone I talk to, regardless of their political persuasion, doesn't feel the system is working. Oh the system is working, alright. It just isn't working for _you_. :-P