3 ms·

> Bellingcat, in collaboration with its investigative partners Der Spiegel and the Insider, Ugh, one of the former top journalists of "Der Spiegel" has shown t

by josefx 6y ago

> Bellingcat, in collaboration with its investigative partners Der Spiegel and the Insider, Ugh, one of the former top journalists of "Der Spiegel" has shown they will happily publish anything that fits their readers narrative. It wouldn't be surprising if half of the facts they found were made up to make the story look more epic than it is.

jacquesm 6y ago
(1) I did add a disclaimer regarding the source (2) There are undoubtedly links between Marsalek and Russia (3) It is plausible (no extradition, reasonably close by so family can still visit) (4) There is circumstantial evidence (5) Many places where he could go to would actually be far more dangerous to him than Belarus So obviously, this is not hard proof but it is a lot better than nothing at all, if you can dispute any of the bits they list as facts rather than speculation (which they were surprisingly candid about) then that would change matters. For now, it is the best that I could find, the list of countries where he could go, live in relative luxury and safety while on the lam for German justice isn't all that long and Belarus features near the top of that list.
- josefx 6y ago
  > if you can dispute any of the bits they list as facts rather than speculation (which they were surprisingly candid about) then that would change matters. A problem with that is that some of their facts are based on "documents they reviewed". I do not have these documents and I cannot find any alternative source for the DA0000051 claim. All I have is past occasions of the Spiegel making stories more exciting and interesting for their readers by making up facts.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    But that doesn't say anything about this particular story, and Der Spiegel has come clean about those instances which is the reason you can make that claim to begin with. Nobody's perfect, but if I get to chose between Der Spiegel and Fox News or Bild I know where I'd put my money. And of course you don't have the documents, it is pretty rare that a news article would be accompanied by all the evidence the publisher has acquired, if only because that could easily put their sources at risk.
    - josefx 6y ago
      > and Der Spiegel has come clean about those instances which is the reason you can make that claim to begin with. After ignoring complaints for years and threatening one of their journalists for having the gall to question their golden goose. They only came clean about because there was no denying the evidence said journalist gathered and if they let someone else publish it they couldn't put their spin on it. Their world class fact checking team at least turned out to be a group of glorified spell checkers.
      - jacquesm 6y ago
        All of which has zero bearing on this particular article. Really, questioning the source like this is just another ad hominem.
        josefx 6y ago
        Given that nobody else has seen those documents the reverse is an appeal to authority and I find it relevant that said authority has a history of embellish facts.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      The only remaining difference is presentation, not content/information. Any money there is wasted, except for (bad) entertainment purposes. (sorry, didn't really want to take this further OT, but could not resist)

by josefx 6y ago

jacquesm 6y ago

(1) I did add a disclaimer regarding the source (2) There are undoubtedly links between Marsalek and Russia (3) It is plausible (no extradition, reasonably close by so family can still visit) (4) There is circumstantial evidence (5) Many places where he could go to would actually be far more dangerous to him than Belarus So obviously, this is not hard proof but it is a lot better than nothing at all, if you can dispute any of the bits they list as facts rather than speculation (which they were surprisingly candid about) then that would change matters. For now, it is the best that I could find, the list of countries where he could go, live in relative luxury and safety while on the lam for German justice isn't all that long and Belarus features near the top of that list.

josefx 6y ago
> if you can dispute any of the bits they list as facts rather than speculation (which they were surprisingly candid about) then that would change matters. A problem with that is that some of their facts are based on "documents they reviewed". I do not have these documents and I cannot find any alternative source for the DA0000051 claim. All I have is past occasions of the Spiegel making stories more exciting and interesting for their readers by making up facts.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  But that doesn't say anything about this particular story, and Der Spiegel has come clean about those instances which is the reason you can make that claim to begin with. Nobody's perfect, but if I get to chose between Der Spiegel and Fox News or Bild I know where I'd put my money. And of course you don't have the documents, it is pretty rare that a news article would be accompanied by all the evidence the publisher has acquired, if only because that could easily put their sources at risk.
  - josefx 6y ago
    > and Der Spiegel has come clean about those instances which is the reason you can make that claim to begin with. After ignoring complaints for years and threatening one of their journalists for having the gall to question their golden goose. They only came clean about because there was no denying the evidence said journalist gathered and if they let someone else publish it they couldn't put their spin on it. Their world class fact checking team at least turned out to be a group of glorified spell checkers.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      All of which has zero bearing on this particular article. Really, questioning the source like this is just another ad hominem.
      - josefx 6y ago
        Given that nobody else has seen those documents the reverse is an appeal to authority and I find it relevant that said authority has a history of embellish facts.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    The only remaining difference is presentation, not content/information. Any money there is wasted, except for (bad) entertainment purposes. (sorry, didn't really want to take this further OT, but could not resist)