9 ms·

It doesn’t matter because if the rules permit Epic then they will permit anybody else who wants to make an app store too. GitHub for instance.

mrtksn 6y ago
It matters for discoverability and frictionless installs/payments. That's the hardest part these days. I am not thrilled by the idea of uneven developer access to the primary channels. Now I pay Apple 100$ and the %30 commission and I have my apps right next to the big boys. Apparently the big boys are planning to get free of the %30 and have their own walled garden where potentially I am not allowed. There's a risk of proliferation of a business model that is possible on the Epic Store but not on AppStore and I am not welcome to join. As a developer I would prefer a regulation to the AppStore for even access instead of alternative appstores.
- SXX 6y ago
  I think it's safe bet to say that if Epic allowed to make their own mobile game app store then Valve will likely follow suit.
  - mrtksn 6y ago
    So is Valve allowing any developer to get its games into their store under reasonable conditions ?
    - cma 6y ago
      Humble and Itch.io could make stores too.
      - mrtksn 6y ago
        So I will have to convince my potential customers to first install the app store that I can get in then they will have to remember to install my app once they complete the set up of the alternative store. Is this even working on Android or anywhere?
        cma 6y ago
        I've used the Amazon, Samsung and Oculus stores on Android. And I think direct APK downloads from Humble a long time ago.
        mrtksn 6y ago
        Good for you but are you going to pay me few thousand dollars a month so I can sustain an independent business? Probably not. What I need is access to a lot of people who are willing to pay me a small sum each for the software that I make. Multiple appstores with uneven access is unlikely to help with that and would probably increase my development costs too. That's not that big a problem for established and big companies but it is something that I am not looking forward to.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        Deploying your software to these different stores probably doesn't involve as much friction as you think it does, and if there is a proliferation of stores one could imagine services springing up in the space to facilitate multi-store deployments and to make the process easier on developers. I mean, if it really is such a worry to you then someone will make a product to help with it because it is a business opportunity. TestFlight, after all, was invented because beta-testing Apple's apps used to be (more) awful.
        blackoil 6y ago
        If you are a small indie app, you can stick with the biggest or a popular store. Likes of microsoft and Epic will fight to get there own stores installed or Apple will loosen is grip.
    - strombofulous 6y ago
      Yes https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1328973169870947116 https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail...
      - mrtksn 6y ago
        I am glad to hear that.
    - SXX 6y ago
      Yeah, they even allow adult-only games now. They still blocked few very controversial titles that include rape and some other crazy shit, but otherwise almost anything can be published on Steam.
- ForHackernews 6y ago
  Presumably Apple's app store would continue to exist as a first-among-equals even if regulators forced them to allow alternative app stores on the iOS platform.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  App Store discoverability is getting worse as it is. For the indies, having more channels to get their apps found might not be such a bad thing. https://twitter.com/wilshipley/status/1270568780712706049 https://twitter.com/wilshipley/status/1270568780712706049 https://ericasadun.com/2015/11/11/finding-triviata-on-the-app-store-a-discoverability-quagmire/ https://ericasadun.com/2015/11/11/finding-triviata-on-the-ap...
- donmcronald 6y ago
  It's not a walled garden if you have multiple options. If there are competing app stores you only need to publish on one of them. Based on what I've read a lot of users think Apple is the only one capable of running a high quality app store and since they'd be the default anyway you can continue to publish there and nothing changes. How does also having the potential to distribute on another app store make it worse?
  - mrtksn 6y ago
    > If there are competing app stores you only need to publish on one of them That's only good for having to say that you have an app. Putting that app in the hands of the people is a different story and it's the hard part. When there are multiple app stores, you can only access the people on that app store which can drastically reduce your market size. It is not realistic to be able to make people install and set up an app store and then install your app. Yeah sure, you can convince few very interested people every now and then but on mobile this doesn't make a business. It is likely that the original App Store will shrink as some people will move to other stores where you might not be allowed to publish. Also, multiple stores creates support nightmare for the users since they will no longer be able to talk to Apple and get their refunds. People would no longer be confident when doing a purchase. This is very bad for independent developers who are not hobbyist but hope to make living. Sure, it would be nice for few hobbyists to get their torrent client in the iPhone but it would significantly disadvantage all small independent businesses. When you are small, the cuts and the commissions are not a problem, the reach and gaining trust is. IMHO: 1) AppStore should be regulated to give equal opportunity to all. Right now there are some problems but it is not broken. An idea would be to have an special API to provide alternative appstore through backend integration but have all this completely invisible to the users. For example, maybe you should be able to link to an alternative appstore but the install process be exactly the same as the original AppStore, payments handled exactly the same but get the commisions to bare minimum when the provider is the alternative appstore. This is like the "repository" concept on Linux app stores, the problem is the customer support when something goes bad. It doesn't work well when the users don't have someone holding both the responsibility and the power to solve their problem. How is Apple supposed to handle the help request due to issues caused by other stores? 2) Jailbreaking should be an option provided by Apple. People should have the freedom to jailbreak their device and do whatever they want with it. Probably should be hard to do to make sure that it's done only by people who know what they are doing. 3) Commissions should probably differentiate for stuff like Spotify v.s. In game coins because on Spotify, they actually don't sell their original content but deal it by buying it from the musicians.
LoSboccacc 6y ago
I wonder why steam isn't using his position to build an android games marketplace, since they already can.
- jamil7 6y ago
  Valve can barely keep steam working on one platform, not sure how they'll manage an Android marketplace too.
  - m4rtink 6y ago
    IIRC they already support Windows, Linux and Mac. Would not be that much of a stretch to support also Android.
    - jamil7 6y ago
      It's the same broken webapp on all three platforms though right?
      - m4rtink 6y ago
        Yeah, so not hard to have it broken on a 4th. ;-) (as if there wasnt already a ton of that stuff on Android...)
bokbok8379 6y ago
Can't wait to have to log in to a different game store, one for each publisher, to buy games!
- colinmhayes 6y ago
  I can't wait for the open source store that has less than 5% fees.
  - mrtksn 6y ago
    I heard that it exist on Linux. It must be very lucrative.
- ROFISH 6y ago
  Honestly direct sales does seem to be where this might be headed. Between safe, secure payment technologies such as (heh) Apple Pay and and safe, secure login systems such as (heh) Login with Apple, then really its super easy to not worry too much about the signup friction.
  - mrtksn 6y ago
    The problem with direct payments is users trust. Crypto is a already available form of payment and there are many tools to take payments directly but it never took of besides for drugs and ransom payments.
    - ROFISH 6y ago
      There are plenty of services such as Apple Pay (or equivalent tokenized services on other phones), 3D Secure, and/or PayPal that don't expose your PAN.
      - Gwypaas 6y ago
        Europe is already essentially running on 3D Secure with 2FA. Becomes noticeable when buying from stores not having the EU as a significant market, usually American, which does not implement it. After the transaction is declined I'm forced to open my bank app and click the scary sounding "open my card for all internet purchases for 60 minutes" button.

mrtksn 6y ago

It matters for discoverability and frictionless installs/payments. That's the hardest part these days. I am not thrilled by the idea of uneven developer access to the primary channels. Now I pay Apple 100$ and the %30 commission and I have my apps right next to the big boys. Apparently the big boys are planning to get free of the %30 and have their own walled garden where potentially I am not allowed. There's a risk of proliferation of a business model that is possible on the Epic Store but not on AppStore and I am not welcome to join. As a developer I would prefer a regulation to the AppStore for even access instead of alternative appstores.

SXX 6y ago
I think it's safe bet to say that if Epic allowed to make their own mobile game app store then Valve will likely follow suit.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  So is Valve allowing any developer to get its games into their store under reasonable conditions ?
  - cma 6y ago
    Humble and Itch.io could make stores too.
    - mrtksn 6y ago
      So I will have to convince my potential customers to first install the app store that I can get in then they will have to remember to install my app once they complete the set up of the alternative store. Is this even working on Android or anywhere?
      - cma 6y ago
        I've used the Amazon, Samsung and Oculus stores on Android. And I think direct APK downloads from Humble a long time ago.
        mrtksn 6y ago
        Good for you but are you going to pay me few thousand dollars a month so I can sustain an independent business? Probably not. What I need is access to a lot of people who are willing to pay me a small sum each for the software that I make. Multiple appstores with uneven access is unlikely to help with that and would probably increase my development costs too. That's not that big a problem for established and big companies but it is something that I am not looking forward to.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        Deploying your software to these different stores probably doesn't involve as much friction as you think it does, and if there is a proliferation of stores one could imagine services springing up in the space to facilitate multi-store deployments and to make the process easier on developers. I mean, if it really is such a worry to you then someone will make a product to help with it because it is a business opportunity. TestFlight, after all, was invented because beta-testing Apple's apps used to be (more) awful.
      - blackoil 6y ago
        If you are a small indie app, you can stick with the biggest or a popular store. Likes of microsoft and Epic will fight to get there own stores installed or Apple will loosen is grip.
  - strombofulous 6y ago
    Yes https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1328973169870947116 https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail...
    - mrtksn 6y ago
      I am glad to hear that.
  - SXX 6y ago
    Yeah, they even allow adult-only games now. They still blocked few very controversial titles that include rape and some other crazy shit, but otherwise almost anything can be published on Steam.
ForHackernews 6y ago
Presumably Apple's app store would continue to exist as a first-among-equals even if regulators forced them to allow alternative app stores on the iOS platform.
Apocryphon 6y ago
App Store discoverability is getting worse as it is. For the indies, having more channels to get their apps found might not be such a bad thing. https://twitter.com/wilshipley/status/1270568780712706049 https://twitter.com/wilshipley/status/1270568780712706049 https://ericasadun.com/2015/11/11/finding-triviata-on-the-app-store-a-discoverability-quagmire/ https://ericasadun.com/2015/11/11/finding-triviata-on-the-ap...
donmcronald 6y ago
It's not a walled garden if you have multiple options. If there are competing app stores you only need to publish on one of them. Based on what I've read a lot of users think Apple is the only one capable of running a high quality app store and since they'd be the default anyway you can continue to publish there and nothing changes. How does also having the potential to distribute on another app store make it worse?
- mrtksn 6y ago
  > If there are competing app stores you only need to publish on one of them That's only good for having to say that you have an app. Putting that app in the hands of the people is a different story and it's the hard part. When there are multiple app stores, you can only access the people on that app store which can drastically reduce your market size. It is not realistic to be able to make people install and set up an app store and then install your app. Yeah sure, you can convince few very interested people every now and then but on mobile this doesn't make a business. It is likely that the original App Store will shrink as some people will move to other stores where you might not be allowed to publish. Also, multiple stores creates support nightmare for the users since they will no longer be able to talk to Apple and get their refunds. People would no longer be confident when doing a purchase. This is very bad for independent developers who are not hobbyist but hope to make living. Sure, it would be nice for few hobbyists to get their torrent client in the iPhone but it would significantly disadvantage all small independent businesses. When you are small, the cuts and the commissions are not a problem, the reach and gaining trust is. IMHO: 1) AppStore should be regulated to give equal opportunity to all. Right now there are some problems but it is not broken. An idea would be to have an special API to provide alternative appstore through backend integration but have all this completely invisible to the users. For example, maybe you should be able to link to an alternative appstore but the install process be exactly the same as the original AppStore, payments handled exactly the same but get the commisions to bare minimum when the provider is the alternative appstore. This is like the "repository" concept on Linux app stores, the problem is the customer support when something goes bad. It doesn't work well when the users don't have someone holding both the responsibility and the power to solve their problem. How is Apple supposed to handle the help request due to issues caused by other stores? 2) Jailbreaking should be an option provided by Apple. People should have the freedom to jailbreak their device and do whatever they want with it. Probably should be hard to do to make sure that it's done only by people who know what they are doing. 3) Commissions should probably differentiate for stuff like Spotify v.s. In game coins because on Spotify, they actually don't sell their original content but deal it by buying it from the musicians.

LoSboccacc 6y ago

I wonder why steam isn't using his position to build an android games marketplace, since they already can.

jamil7 6y ago
Valve can barely keep steam working on one platform, not sure how they'll manage an Android marketplace too.
- m4rtink 6y ago
  IIRC they already support Windows, Linux and Mac. Would not be that much of a stretch to support also Android.
  - jamil7 6y ago
    It's the same broken webapp on all three platforms though right?
    - m4rtink 6y ago
      Yeah, so not hard to have it broken on a 4th. ;-) (as if there wasnt already a ton of that stuff on Android...)

bokbok8379 6y ago

Can't wait to have to log in to a different game store, one for each publisher, to buy games!

colinmhayes 6y ago
I can't wait for the open source store that has less than 5% fees.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  I heard that it exist on Linux. It must be very lucrative.
ROFISH 6y ago
Honestly direct sales does seem to be where this might be headed. Between safe, secure payment technologies such as (heh) Apple Pay and and safe, secure login systems such as (heh) Login with Apple, then really its super easy to not worry too much about the signup friction.
- mrtksn 6y ago
  The problem with direct payments is users trust. Crypto is a already available form of payment and there are many tools to take payments directly but it never took of besides for drugs and ransom payments.
  - ROFISH 6y ago
    There are plenty of services such as Apple Pay (or equivalent tokenized services on other phones), 3D Secure, and/or PayPal that don't expose your PAN.
    - Gwypaas 6y ago
      Europe is already essentially running on 3D Secure with 2FA. Becomes noticeable when buying from stores not having the EU as a significant market, usually American, which does not implement it. After the transaction is declined I'm forced to open my bank app and click the scary sounding "open my card for all internet purchases for 60 minutes" button.