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What's the headhunter bounty for former Wirecard COO Jan Marsalek? He's still at large: https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/36396/marsalek-joins-interpols-most

by Tepix 6y ago

What's the headhunter bounty for former Wirecard COO Jan Marsalek? He's still at large: https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/36396/marsalek-joins-interpols-most-wanted-ranks https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/36396/marsalek-joins-in...

brian_herman__ 6y ago
50 million woolongs?
jacquesm 6y ago
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2020/07/18/worlds-most-wanted-man-jan-marsalek-located-in-belarus-data-points-to-russian-intel-links/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2020/07/18/wor... Not sure how reliable that is but it would make some sense, close by and hard to impossible to be extradited from there.
- MiroF 6y ago
  It's ridiculous how any rich person accused of fraud in the West can take asylum in Russia/China and vice versa.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    Pecunia non olet is now about 2000 years old, not much has changed in that time.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
      That may be true when it comes fresh from the ATM, but otherwise is mostly false. People physically handling money would tell you that it indeed STINKS!
      - microtherion 6y ago
        Don't forget that the phrase was coined by an emperor who started charging for access to public latrines…
        jacquesm 6y ago
        That's incorrect. Access to the latrines was free, the money was in order to be allowed to empty the latrines, with urine having fairly high concentrations of certain minerals and lots of applications (for instance: curing leather).
        microtherion 6y ago
        I stand corrected!
      - pavlov 6y ago
        The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) is proud of their wire transfer network being 99.9999% odorless.
  - erdos4d 6y ago
    I'm currently living in Ecuador and skipping out of the country with millions and heading to Europe is the preferred route for many politicians here. They get safe haven there with their families and are not extradited, even when the government tries to get them back for trial. So, this is actually perfectly cool with the EU coming from another western country, not just Russia/China. Money seems to make those EU principles of the rule of law very negotiable. Guess they have the inverse problem as well when someone runs off with their money.
  - pkaye 6y ago
    Also there are rich people in poor countries that embezzle money and then move to a western country. They are able to use the laws and protections of that western country to block any extradition.
    - MiroF 6y ago
      Sorry, yeah I said "Russia/China" but meant more the non-West.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    Because it is more than likely that Wirecard was not just running a front for illegal gambling and questionably legal (in terms of youth protection compliance) porn sites, but also a front for Russian GRU/FSB to distribute cash to agents and sources. There is no other reasonable explanation as for why he is under the care of GRU.
    - MiroF 6y ago
      ?? The United States and Europe routinely do the same thing - I think that other countries would do this as a "screw you" to US/EU just as much.
- elliekelly 6y ago
  So, assuming what’s reported in that article is true, is Russia a black hat finance bug bounty hunter of sorts? They identify ongoing high-profile fraud in Western countries and use that leverage to turn the executive into intelligence assets? Or is it the other way around? He was already working with Russia and then just happened to commit massive fraud at the same time? I guess I’m just having a hard time understanding how a person can get themselves into such a situation. I can’t believe it’s just greed that allows it to happen but perhaps that’s naive of me.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    You can bet your bottom dollar that Russia and Russia backed entities (as well as Chinese) are spending a lot of money to try to gain footholds in Western Europe and America through all kinds of schemes. Whether this was one of those is up for grabs, it could easily be. But it is a fact that these things are happening. How they might get themselves into such a situation? Just one sample: The company might have been in financial trouble, not able to fulfill its obligations in the short term, and so a decision was made to pull in some Russian 'cheap' capital for a short term loan. There is a very large amount of illicit Russian money flowing around and it pops up in the most respectable places. So it isn't necessarily just greed, it could be that the investor that you are taking on board in turn is a front for that sort of capital (always ask for the source of the capital from your investors, if they are coy about it then better go somewhere else), or that the founders are too naive to realize that they are making deals with people they should stay away from (see comment above for my own personal story).
    - mschuster91 6y ago
      > or that the founders are too naive to realize that they are making deals with people they should stay away from Given that there are reports that Marsalek tried to put up 15.000 mercenaries to take over Libyan border controls (possibly with a relation to the politics of his homeland Austria and it's anti immigration policy!), it may very well also be that Marsalek knew what he was getting into and went all in out of a search for fame, a real life Austrian 007.
- josefx 6y ago
  > Bellingcat, in collaboration with its investigative partners Der Spiegel and the Insider, Ugh, one of the former top journalists of "Der Spiegel" has shown they will happily publish anything that fits their readers narrative. It wouldn't be surprising if half of the facts they found were made up to make the story look more epic than it is.
  - jacquesm 6y ago
    (1) I did add a disclaimer regarding the source (2) There are undoubtedly links between Marsalek and Russia (3) It is plausible (no extradition, reasonably close by so family can still visit) (4) There is circumstantial evidence (5) Many places where he could go to would actually be far more dangerous to him than Belarus So obviously, this is not hard proof but it is a lot better than nothing at all, if you can dispute any of the bits they list as facts rather than speculation (which they were surprisingly candid about) then that would change matters. For now, it is the best that I could find, the list of countries where he could go, live in relative luxury and safety while on the lam for German justice isn't all that long and Belarus features near the top of that list.
    - josefx 6y ago
      > if you can dispute any of the bits they list as facts rather than speculation (which they were surprisingly candid about) then that would change matters. A problem with that is that some of their facts are based on "documents they reviewed". I do not have these documents and I cannot find any alternative source for the DA0000051 claim. All I have is past occasions of the Spiegel making stories more exciting and interesting for their readers by making up facts.
      - jacquesm 6y ago
        But that doesn't say anything about this particular story, and Der Spiegel has come clean about those instances which is the reason you can make that claim to begin with. Nobody's perfect, but if I get to chose between Der Spiegel and Fox News or Bild I know where I'd put my money. And of course you don't have the documents, it is pretty rare that a news article would be accompanied by all the evidence the publisher has acquired, if only because that could easily put their sources at risk.
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
  That's one hell of a read...
- dehrmann 6y ago
  > World's Most Wanted Man Jan Marsalek Located in Belarus Belarus. That's certainly an interesting place to be right now, and a place that has more important things to deal with than a high-profile white-collar criminal.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
whereisjan1020 6y ago
i heard it is over 150k now
whereisjan1020 6y ago
Henry o' sullivan is a key player in this too. Wonder how long before people start looking at him much more closely.

by Tepix 6y ago

brian_herman__ 6y ago

50 million woolongs?

jacquesm 6y ago

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2020/07/18/worlds-most-wanted-man-jan-marsalek-located-in-belarus-data-points-to-russian-intel-links/ https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2020/07/18/wor... Not sure how reliable that is but it would make some sense, close by and hard to impossible to be extradited from there.

MiroF 6y ago
It's ridiculous how any rich person accused of fraud in the West can take asylum in Russia/China and vice versa.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  Pecunia non olet is now about 2000 years old, not much has changed in that time.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 6y ago
    That may be true when it comes fresh from the ATM, but otherwise is mostly false. People physically handling money would tell you that it indeed STINKS!
    - microtherion 6y ago
      Don't forget that the phrase was coined by an emperor who started charging for access to public latrines…
      - jacquesm 6y ago
        That's incorrect. Access to the latrines was free, the money was in order to be allowed to empty the latrines, with urine having fairly high concentrations of certain minerals and lots of applications (for instance: curing leather).
        microtherion 6y ago
        I stand corrected!
    - pavlov 6y ago
      The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT) is proud of their wire transfer network being 99.9999% odorless.
- erdos4d 6y ago
  I'm currently living in Ecuador and skipping out of the country with millions and heading to Europe is the preferred route for many politicians here. They get safe haven there with their families and are not extradited, even when the government tries to get them back for trial. So, this is actually perfectly cool with the EU coming from another western country, not just Russia/China. Money seems to make those EU principles of the rule of law very negotiable. Guess they have the inverse problem as well when someone runs off with their money.
- pkaye 6y ago
  Also there are rich people in poor countries that embezzle money and then move to a western country. They are able to use the laws and protections of that western country to block any extradition.
  - MiroF 6y ago
    Sorry, yeah I said "Russia/China" but meant more the non-West.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Because it is more than likely that Wirecard was not just running a front for illegal gambling and questionably legal (in terms of youth protection compliance) porn sites, but also a front for Russian GRU/FSB to distribute cash to agents and sources. There is no other reasonable explanation as for why he is under the care of GRU.
  - MiroF 6y ago
    ?? The United States and Europe routinely do the same thing - I think that other countries would do this as a "screw you" to US/EU just as much.
elliekelly 6y ago
So, assuming what’s reported in that article is true, is Russia a black hat finance bug bounty hunter of sorts? They identify ongoing high-profile fraud in Western countries and use that leverage to turn the executive into intelligence assets? Or is it the other way around? He was already working with Russia and then just happened to commit massive fraud at the same time? I guess I’m just having a hard time understanding how a person can get themselves into such a situation. I can’t believe it’s just greed that allows it to happen but perhaps that’s naive of me.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  You can bet your bottom dollar that Russia and Russia backed entities (as well as Chinese) are spending a lot of money to try to gain footholds in Western Europe and America through all kinds of schemes. Whether this was one of those is up for grabs, it could easily be. But it is a fact that these things are happening. How they might get themselves into such a situation? Just one sample: The company might have been in financial trouble, not able to fulfill its obligations in the short term, and so a decision was made to pull in some Russian 'cheap' capital for a short term loan. There is a very large amount of illicit Russian money flowing around and it pops up in the most respectable places. So it isn't necessarily just greed, it could be that the investor that you are taking on board in turn is a front for that sort of capital (always ask for the source of the capital from your investors, if they are coy about it then better go somewhere else), or that the founders are too naive to realize that they are making deals with people they should stay away from (see comment above for my own personal story).
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > or that the founders are too naive to realize that they are making deals with people they should stay away from Given that there are reports that Marsalek tried to put up 15.000 mercenaries to take over Libyan border controls (possibly with a relation to the politics of his homeland Austria and it's anti immigration policy!), it may very well also be that Marsalek knew what he was getting into and went all in out of a search for fame, a real life Austrian 007.
josefx 6y ago
> Bellingcat, in collaboration with its investigative partners Der Spiegel and the Insider, Ugh, one of the former top journalists of "Der Spiegel" has shown they will happily publish anything that fits their readers narrative. It wouldn't be surprising if half of the facts they found were made up to make the story look more epic than it is.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  (1) I did add a disclaimer regarding the source (2) There are undoubtedly links between Marsalek and Russia (3) It is plausible (no extradition, reasonably close by so family can still visit) (4) There is circumstantial evidence (5) Many places where he could go to would actually be far more dangerous to him than Belarus So obviously, this is not hard proof but it is a lot better than nothing at all, if you can dispute any of the bits they list as facts rather than speculation (which they were surprisingly candid about) then that would change matters. For now, it is the best that I could find, the list of countries where he could go, live in relative luxury and safety while on the lam for German justice isn't all that long and Belarus features near the top of that list.
  - josefx 6y ago
    > if you can dispute any of the bits they list as facts rather than speculation (which they were surprisingly candid about) then that would change matters. A problem with that is that some of their facts are based on "documents they reviewed". I do not have these documents and I cannot find any alternative source for the DA0000051 claim. All I have is past occasions of the Spiegel making stories more exciting and interesting for their readers by making up facts.
    - jacquesm 6y ago
      But that doesn't say anything about this particular story, and Der Spiegel has come clean about those instances which is the reason you can make that claim to begin with. Nobody's perfect, but if I get to chose between Der Spiegel and Fox News or Bild I know where I'd put my money. And of course you don't have the documents, it is pretty rare that a news article would be accompanied by all the evidence the publisher has acquired, if only because that could easily put their sources at risk.
x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
That's one hell of a read...
dehrmann 6y ago
> World's Most Wanted Man Jan Marsalek Located in Belarus Belarus. That's certainly an interesting place to be right now, and a place that has more important things to deal with than a high-profile white-collar criminal.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

whereisjan1020 6y ago

i heard it is over 150k now

whereisjan1020 6y ago

Henry o' sullivan is a key player in this too. Wonder how long before people start looking at him much more closely.